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Old 09-22-2010, 06:35 AM   #1
BlackLiger
 
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Default How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors.

How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors? I've been trying to work it out.
Example:

Armour, Ablative, 200.

Gauss rifle, Armour divisor 3.

Let's say the rifle does 30 damage on average, and hits 6 times in a burst of fire.

So, we divide 200 by 3, resulting in 67 DR rounding.
Then we divide 170 by 3, resulting in 57 DR, rounding.
Then 140, resulting in 47 DR.
Then 110, resulting in 37 DR.
Then 80, 27 DR, meaning 3 damage to the target.
Then 50, 16 DR, meaning 14 damage gets through.


Is this correct?
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors.

Looks about right. However, on the second to last hit, the armor only stopped 27 points of damage, so it should probably only take 27 points, not all 30. So, in the next part you'll be starting with DR 53, so effectively 17 DR, meaning 13 damage gets through, and so on (reducing only by 17 this time, as that's all the damage it actually stopped).
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors.

Here's my take.

Consider an extreme case: Cosmic Irresistible Attack, which is an alias of Armor Divisor Infinity. It simply pass through your DR and directly inflicts an injury on you, destroying none of your DR. That is, if the incoming attacks has an Armor Divisor, then it should also divide the number subtracted from your DR.

Therefore, in your Ablative Armor DR 200 vs. 30 damage Gauss Rifle example:

First bullet: DR 200, divided by 3, resulting in DR 66 (in GURPS combat, game stats are usually rounded down. See p. B9). The bullet is stopped, reducing DR by 30/3 = 10.
Second bullet: DR 190, divided by 3, resulting in DR 63. Ditto.
Third bullet: DR 180, divided by 3, resulting in DR 60. Ditto.
Fourth bullet: DR 170, divided by 3, resulting in DR 56. Ditto.
Fifth bullet: DR 160, divided by 3, resulting in DR 53. Ditto.
Sixth bullet: DR 150, divided by 3, resulting in DR 50. Ditto.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors.

Personally, Gurps Fan, I think that makes armor divisor too weak against ablative and semi-ablative armor. It also has the odd effect of making Hardened a bad idea - you pay more for the trait to make it more ablative. I'd stick with the interpretation that it loses 1 point of DR per point of basic damage blocked.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurps Fan View Post
Here's my take.

Consider an extreme case: Cosmic Irresistible Attack, which is an alias of Armor Divisor Infinity. It simply pass through your DR and directly inflicts an injury on you, destroying none of your DR. That is, if the incoming attacks has an Armor Divisor, then it should also divide the number subtracted from your DR.
Unfortunately, Ablative (and Semi-Ablative) both mention basic damage with regards to removal. An Armor Divisor affects how much penetrating damage you get, but wouldn't affect the amount of DR lost by RAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post
Looks about right. However, on the second to last hit, the armor only stopped 27 points of damage, so it should probably only take 27 points, not all 30. So, in the next part you'll be starting with DR 53, so effectively 17 DR, meaning 13 damage gets through, and so on (reducing only by 17 this time, as that's all the damage it actually stopped).
Maybe, but whilst that probably fits a stricter reading of Ablative, Semi-Ablative talks about damage rolled rather than blocked. So assuming you treat both Ablative and Semi-Ablative the same (blocked or rolled), the OP's numbers are correct following on from using Semi-Ablative as the base. And it would be odd to me for a game not to treat them the same.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post
Personally, Gurps Fan, I think that makes armor divisor too weak against ablative and semi-ablative armor. It also has the odd effect of making Hardened a bad idea - you pay more for the trait to make it more ablative. I'd stick with the interpretation that it loses 1 point of DR per point of basic damage blocked.
I see. That sounds indeed sensible, and faithful to the book's wording: "Each point of DR stops one point of basic damage but is destroyed in the process" (p. B47).

After some search, I find that this question seems to have appeared repeatedly in the forum but the designers haven't never commented yet. I think this is FAQ-worthy.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: How does ablative DR interact with armour divisors.

The problem is that Armor Divisor overrides the "stops one point of basic damage" part of the sentence - it doesn't stop as much. Therefore the question of whether that impacts how much is ablated.

If the attack has an armor divisor because it melts holes in things, that certainly sounds like it should still be doing horrible things to the armor. But if it has an armor divisor because it's out-of-phase or partly made of weird exploding neutrinos or otherwise exotic and noninteractive, the argument that it should still make proportional holes in the armor starts looking weaker.

But you pay the same for both versions, and if anything the magical phasing attacks would seem to be the one that should be MORE expensive, and yet they seem to be less effective (philosphically - at the moment both cases are indistinguishable in the rules).
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