Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-13-2019, 05:48 AM   #1
AlexanderHowl
On Notice
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

I was just wondering if anyone had used dazzler carbines much in their games (or played in games where they were used much)? The ability to use a cone attack to temporarily blind people seems to make it a particularly useful less than lethal weapon, especially given its long range and minimum power consumption. Of course, it is of marginal use against armored targets, as they usually have Protected Vision, but it otherwise seems quite useful. What do you think?
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 06:24 AM   #2
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

I played a retired scout turned spy in a GURPS Traveler game that used an under barrel laser that had the Dazzler option.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 07:19 AM   #3
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

I don't think my players have ever even considered them. They'd be quite useful vs low-tech foes, but against their contemporaries they'd be nearly worthless due to shades and visors with anti-laser coatings.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 02:35 PM   #4
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

In my superhero game the friendly space robot carries non-lethal and less-lethal weaponry almost exclusively, including laser dazzlers. They've worked great against most folks that don't wear eyewear, less so against folks with polarized visors. But that's also using them against early-TL8 opponents.
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J-onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 02:59 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

The real world problem is that 'bright enough to dazzle but not bright enough to cause permanent eye damage, for targets at unknown range' is hard to achieve.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 10:28 PM   #6
Kale
 
Kale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

The range really matters: a beam that dazzles at long range will have to be powerful enough that up close it inflicts serious eye damage. Something that *just* dazzles up close will be equivalent to a strong flashlight at a distance.
I do keep careful track of laser wavelength in games though. IR lasers are likely to be protected against as it is relatively easy to make optics that block IR but allow the visible to pass so the user can see. Green lasers, however, are harder to defend against as the optics must block green light which is a major portion of the visible spectrum. Somebody wearing green-blocking eye protection might actually have a quirk-level colorblindness effect while wearing them.
__________________
FYI: Laser burns HURT!
Kale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 10:40 PM   #7
AlexanderHowl
On Notice
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

One thing to remember is that polarized sunglasses only give Protected Vision, not immunity, so you would be rolling against HT rather than HT-5. If you had a squad ten cops using them for crowd control, even armored troops would have trouble. After blinding people, they would be fairly easy for the cops to arrest, as most of them are not going anywhere when they cannot see anything.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 12:14 AM   #8
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale View Post
I do keep careful track of laser wavelength in games though. IR lasers are likely to be protected against as it is relatively easy to make optics that block IR but allow the visible to pass so the user can see. Green lasers, however, are harder to defend against as the optics must block green light which is a major portion of the visible spectrum. Somebody wearing green-blocking eye protection might actually have a quirk-level colorblindness effect while wearing them.
Given that the ways to make a an effective laser in a given spectrum are limited, and lasers don't have spread frequencies at all, it shouldn't be too hard to work out what exact frequencies you need to block, and leave the rest of the spectrum open. The trick is blocking those frequencies only. If the lasers are polarised and you know the direction, that gives another way to block them (completely).

Another huge risk factor with these sorts of weapons is scatter and reflection getting your guys hit with their own weapons, and if they can dazzle at range a short-range reflection is going to be fairly dangerous.

I see them, even weapons that supposedly merely dazzle (unless they only do so for a very short distance), as terror weapons more than 'less-than-lethal' or 'crowd control' weapons. One intended for blinding are definitely terror weapons, and also ones that you'd be very foolish to use on your own population, even if it's revolting - you end up with a whole lot of blind or at least visually impaired people that will be greatly lowered productivity and increased living costs. Not good for you economy.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 12:26 AM   #9
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Given that the ways to make a an effective laser in a given spectrum are limited, and lasers don't have spread frequencies at all, it shouldn't be too hard to work out what exact frequencies you need to block, and leave the rest of the spectrum open. The trick is blocking those frequencies only. If the lasers are polarised and you know the direction, that gives another way to block them (completely).
That's the modern solution, but variable frequency isn't that hard to manage if you aren't trying to use a chemical laser.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 01:59 AM   #10
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: The Effectiveness of Dazzler Carbines [Ultratech]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
One thing to remember is that polarized sunglasses only give Protected Vision, not immunity, so you would be rolling against HT rather than HT-5. If you had a squad ten cops using them for crowd control, even armored troops would have trouble. After blinding people, they would be fairly easy for the cops to arrest, as most of them are not going anywhere when they cannot see anything.
On the bright side, Protected Vision still caps the maximum duration to 2 seconds and 'adapts' to the stimulus (B78). So while useful, dazzlers only open a short window of opportunity.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
The Eye of Eclipse Phase. A Discord server focusing on Roleplaying, Sci-Fi, Transhumanism, and discussion of other assorted topics, from tech to boardgames, from politics to philosophy.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.