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Old 06-13-2019, 04:44 PM   #21
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
Also, are there any good stats for ballistic face protection out there?
Hunting the internet finds some things. I believe NIJ IIIa is normalized to DR 12. There is also a NIJ standard for riot helmets, but it seems to be normalized for stopping thrown rocks.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Hunting the internet finds some things. I believe NIJ IIIa is normalized to DR 12. There is also a NIJ standard for riot helmets, but it seems to be normalized for stopping thrown rocks.
Finding realistic DR ratings for various non-ballistic attacks is also fairly troublesome, for all types of body armor.

The DR 12/5* listed for Ballistic Polymer NIJ Level IIIA in published GURPS products would actually pass many types of stab/spike protection testing, but so far, I can't find any of the light Dyneema/Spectra type ballistic armor that also claims stab/spike protection, without a dedicated anti-stab layer.

I suspect that without such a dedicated layer, sharp and narrow penetrators with greater momentum than bullets (i.e. knives, shivs and needles driven home by muslce-power) should get AD(2) against flexible ballistic armor. That way, without specialized multi-threat armor that generally weighs 25-30% more than the lightest NIJ Level IIIA ballistic armor, sharp pointy things remain dangerous, against effective DR 1-2.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Steel may not be as light as advanced composites, but it doesn't have an expiration date, either.
Steel has another advantage in an AtE scenario - it deals with multiple hits much better. Even a hit that damages or penetrates a steel plate doesn't degrade the strength of the rest of the plate except very close to the damage. A penetrated ceramic plate is nearly useless, and a near-penetrated one might be too (and it probably still look fine).
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: Safariland Protech TAC PR Package (w/ 4400 Type IV Plate)

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Put me down for Jerk [-15], and yourself as Pedantic [-15].
Nope. That's a personal attack and not allowed by forum rules. One week off because most of us are at Origins and don't have time to monitor this.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Finding realistic DR ratings for various non-ballistic attacks is also fairly troublesome, for all types of body armor.
What about gear like the plastic plate armor worn by mountain bikers? Obviously not useful against bullets, but apparently is designed to keep a stray tree root or rock out of your guts if you wipe out on a long downhill stretch?
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:09 PM   #26
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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What about gear like the plastic plate armor worn by mountain bikers? Obviously not useful against bullets, but apparently is designed to keep a stray tree root or rock out of your guts if you wipe out on a long downhill stretch?
Similarly, I've seen some armor for motorcyclists, mostly to protect against road rash. Again, obviously no good against most bullets, but I'd rather wear something like that than nothing it I guy was coming at me with a knife.
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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What about gear like the plastic plate armor worn by mountain bikers? Obviously not useful against bullets, but apparently is designed to keep a stray tree root or rock out of your guts if you wipe out on a long downhill stretch?
Modern protective gear is prone to being highly specialized. It would mostly be crushing DR, though it certainly has some effect against other threats.
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:28 AM   #28
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Default Cutting-edge Commercial Body Armor / Best in Class

Right, I thought I'd try again to get suggestions from forumites on what real-world body armors are high-quality, reliable, comfortable and give good coverage and protection. Basically, what should PCs with Wealth, Merchant and tactical experience or well-funded, well-informed, discerning NPCs be buying off the shelf in a campaign set in the real world, about the modern day?

I'd love it if someone had rough ideas about how much coverage the armor should give under the n/6 system from High-Tech and/or had data on the weight of a typical example, all-inclusive (i.e. carrier, ballistic panels, attachments, etc.). But it's not necessary to have stats for it in order for you to suggest armor. If someone can state from experience, repute or research that a given set of body armor is top-of-the-line, I'll try to do so e research to come up with GURPS stats.

Now, I'm looking for the 'Best in Class' for a few categories, as in, what is available from commercial vendors that is top shelf in the following broad categories of body armor:

Concealable NIJ Level II
The absolutely most low-profile and comfortable vest to wear without anyone noticing, when protection against common pistol rounds is adequate and concealability under normal clothing is the most important factor. Needs to be made by a reputable company and be as comfortable as possible in any climate, performing any kind of activity. Something rich NPCs with dangerous enemies can wear at all times.

Concealable NIJ Level II, Multi-threat
As above, but for users who are just as worried about shivings, ninja assassins or razor-sharp demon talons as they are about shootings.

Concealable NIJ Level IIIA, Multi-threat
The best protection available that can still be concealed under the kind of clothing a detective, business executive or lawyer might wear.

Patrol Vest NIJ Level IIIA (w or w/o Multi-threat protection)
If law enforcment agencies bought the best products available, not the best product that they can fit in a budget that is never quite enough. Something a billionaire might give to a Sheriff's Office where he has entirely too much influence. Or something extremely well-funded PSCs might wear for duty when overt rifle-resistant tactical gear is ill-advised.

I could use several suggestions here and variations that are multi-threat are always welcome, because in a world with supernatural threats and monster hunters; burning, cutting, crushing and impaling attacks are of much more concern than for typical real-world cops. Also, the ability to work in conjunction with quickly inserted plates or overt vests put on over it, for upgrades to Level III or IV, is always good.

What are the best patrol vests today, even if they cost $1,200 to $2,000 without any plates?

Overt Rifle-Resistant Body Armor, NIJ Level III
What is the best light, comfortable, fairly low-profile, conductive to freedom of movement and long-wearing Level III armor?

What are the best inserts for flexible NIJ Level IIIA that make it able to resist most common rifle rounds.

What are the best stand-alone NIJ Level III plates and best plate carriers?

What is the best light tactical gear?

What should well-funded SWAT wear?

What should PCs wear?

Overt Rifle-Resistant Body Armor, NIJ Level IV
What is the best rifle-resistant armor to store in vehicles, to be quickly put on in the event of a threat?

What's the best tactical gear for all threats?
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Hunting the internet finds some things. I believe NIJ IIIa is normalized to DR 12. There is also a NIJ standard for riot helmets, but it seems to be normalized for stopping thrown rocks.
I'd seen the NIJ classifications, but the conversion to DR is the sort of thing I was wondering about, short of brute forcing it from the mean damage of the rounds that it is rated against.

I also see that people have started talking about foam armour again - I recall a lot of fuss about shear-thickening foam around the millennium and then it all went quiet again. Now metal foam seems to be the new great hope but that may be something else. Anyone out there well informed?
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:13 AM   #30
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Default NIJ Levels in DR Ratings

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I'd seen the NIJ classifications, but the conversion to DR is the sort of thing I was wondering about, short of brute forcing it from the mean damage of the rounds that it is rated against.
While the protection against other threats can be hard to estimate, the ballistic protection of NIJ Levels in GURPS is pretty straightforward and fairly accurate (as accurate as a single rating can be).

NIJ Rating
Level II: DR 10
Level IIIA: DR 12
Level III: DR 25
Level IV: DR 36

All DR ratings are the minimum required to pass testing for this level of protection. Technically, NIJ Levels are not inclusive and the real-world factors that govern penetration are sufficiently complex that it is theoretically possible to pass Level IV testing, but fail Level III, for example (hardened steel plates of a certain thickness might stop 166 grain M2 rounds from .30_06, for example, but fail against high-velocity 55 grain M193 5.56x45mm), but as GURPS only gives a single DR rating against all bullet types, such complexities are ignored unless a GM feels like adjusting DR ratings against specific projectiles at specific velocities.
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