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Old 01-27-2019, 06:33 AM   #1
mirtexxan
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Italy
Default penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

Hello, guys,

I'm aware that same spells (healing, resurrection) impose hard limits on repeated attempts, but I wondere: is there any default assumption on "repeated attempts" when casting spells in general?

For instance, can you try to "repair" an object, for an infinite amount of times, or is there same rule that punish repeated attempts while casting a spell?
It would be fair to apply the cumulative penalty for skill at B348?
If yes, in which scenario? How long would it take for the penalties to wear off? One day?
It is fair to penalize caster for failed attempts on buff spells on the party?
Or you would rather limit the penalties to borderline scenarios such as the repair spell?

Thank you for your answers.
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:45 PM   #2
mirtexxan
 
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

Anyone as some suggestions?
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:27 AM   #3
Refplace
 
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

Generally no, unless its mentioned in the spell.
However a GM could apply them, especially repair and create skills.
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Old 01-28-2019, 05:20 AM   #4
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

It's never occurred to me that those rules applied to spells. But the standard spells are skills, and it's a general rule for skills, so why not? The FP cost even for a failed spell tends to curb too much abuse of freely-allowed retries. I don't think the question ever came up in games I've been in.

Retry penalties might be particularly appropriate where the metaphysics of the setting involve some sort of environmental factors for magic -- mana currents, alignments of planets, moon, and stars, or invoking local spirits that may be sulky or absent. In those cases, a failed skill roll could suggest that there's an environmental problem, not just an execution error on the part of the caster like mispronouncing a word, and so just doing it again isn't necessarily going to make it all better. (The more extreme form of this idea means a failed skill roll means you can't succeed even if you do try again -- the stars aren't right, and they won't be until you wait long enough for something to shift.)

But the rule on B348 also says that some skills don't get retries at all, and others have retries at no penalty, and that the GM is supposed to decide what penalty if any applies on a case-by-case basis. So it's still ultimately a GM call.
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:35 AM   #5
Kromm
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

Unless a spell names some special penalty for repeated attempts (mainly an issue for the Healing college), there isn't one. The general rules for repeated attempts (p. B348) identify four cases:
  1. Failure kills/destroys subject, preventing repeated attempts.
  2. Failure causes damage, so repeated attempts "cost" damage.
  3. Failure causes no damage, but repeated attempts have a cumulative -1.
  4. Failure costs only time; repeated attempts have no penalty at all.
Spells are normally case #2, with the "damage" in this case being to FP, not HP.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:45 PM   #6
Plane
 
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

when spells cost 0 FP (like "Light" at skill 15-19) does that shift them from #2 to #4, or from #2 to #3?
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:38 PM   #7
evileeyore
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
when spells cost 0 FP (like "Light" at skill 15-19) does that shift them from #2 to #4, or from #2 to #3?
There are no spells that cost "0 FP". There are plenty of spells that cost a low amount of FP and thet due to high skill have a reduced cost. In this case they cost "X amount - Y amount" where X and Y may or may not be equal.


There is no "shift", spells are pretty much always case #2, even if the 'damage' has been reduced to 0 by high skill. Thus is the benefit of high skill. And the ever present looming possibility of catastrophic failure (ie critical failure, which is it's own hard limit).
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:58 AM   #8
Plane
 
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

so in the case of skill 15 Light, it''s 1 FP of damage but the skill acts like Damage Resistance reducing 1 to 0?
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:22 AM   #9
evileeyore
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Default Re: penalty to repeated attempts on casting spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
so in the case of skill 15 Light, it''s 1 FP of damage but the skill acts like Damage Resistance reducing 1 to 0?
That's how I run it. It keeps me from having to chase wild tangents down strange alleys to nip corner cases in the bud. But then I've begun to desire simplicity in my games, not heavy addendums of singular instance rulings*.

In most cases, unless you've altered the way magic works in your campaigns, every casting of a spell has a risk of catastrophic failure (on critical failures), thus they always have a cost, even if it's just an opportunity cost.


* Because inconsistency is my bugaboo. I'll put up with heavy GM fiat as long the GM is consistent. When they just make up new stuff with every whim it's time for me to go find a new game.
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