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Old 06-14-2019, 04:41 PM   #1
Greg 1
 
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Default Striking Strength and Readying Heavy Weapons

According to B88, Striking Strength only boosts damage.

Should it count for readying heavy weapons too?

Last edited by Greg 1; 06-14-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

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Originally Posted by Greg 1 View Post
According to B88, Striking Strength only boosts damage.

Should it count for readying heavy weapons too?
I'd say NO, because "Striking ST has no effect on HP or Basic Lift." and BL represent the ST needed to ready a (heavy) weapon.
IMHO.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

It's been pointed out to me that Kromm says SS counts here

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...81&postcount=6
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

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Originally Posted by Greg 1 View Post
It's been pointed out to me that Kromm says SS counts here

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...81&postcount=6
On one hand, yes. But on the other, it depends what you're trying to do.

Do you want to have a cinematic high SS? If so, then Kromm is right.

But it's possible to have a realistic high SS. This is a matter of the curve of muscle power versus load. A muscle near the maximum load will exert high force at low velocity; that's LS. But a muscle near the minimum load will exert low force at high velocity—and that maps plausibly to SS. You hit with a lot of impact because your fist, or your knife, has been accelerated quickly to high speed; but if you try to hit with a heavy mace, or a two-handed sword wielded in one hand, your power output drops off.

That's how I would take it, anyway.

In superheroic terms, LS is more for bricks, and SS is a better fit for speedsters.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

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Originally Posted by Greg 1 View Post
It's been pointed out to me that Kromm says SS counts here

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...81&postcount=6
Good find. I believe RAW text makes clear that SS definitely counts for meeting Min ST; the above clarifies that it also matters for speeding up polearms, etc. And for the sake of simplicity, I appreciate that both of these things rely on the same stat (SS); if one did but the other didn't, I'd probably keep forgetting which is which.

At the same time, though, I kind of like the opposite (not RAW) effect: Lifting ST matters for meeting Min ST and for readying heavy weapons, while SS only determines damage. I like the effect that it yields in, say, Catfolk (SS > LS) vs Dwarves (LS > SS). If SS governs damage but LS governs the size of the weapon you can use, you get the effect of Catfolk having to use relatively light weapons (though to good effect), while Dwarves find that their impressive LS goes to waste with light weapons. Bring in some big, heavy mauls, though, and the Dwarves become happy: their LS lets them wield the things, while the weapons' heft supplies the extra damage that the Dwarves' modest SS doesn't provide.

I prefer how that works out, but maybe there's a pitfall in there that I'm overlooking?
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

That Striking Strength is already over-priced at 3/level (compared to Innate Attack damage), so having it do effectively nothing but provide damage makes it even worse. At least is SS is required for MinST and similar effects, it has a little more value than just very expensive damage.
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

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That Striking Strength is already over-priced at 3/level (compared to Innate Attack damage)
Fair enough. (Though you mean overpriced at 5/level, right?) And if that's the case, then SS or Innate Attack should have its cost adjusted. (Probably a well-discussed topic somewhere in the forum!)

Cost issues aside, I still prefer the in-play effect of using LS as the stat for wielding heavy weapons. (So do 4 out of 5 Dwarves!)

But back to RAW: Yeah, usable weapon size is all about SS. Speaking of which: What with the many "SS or LS?" feats out there – damage, lifting, Minimum ST, re-readying polearms, drawing a bow, wresting, calculating range of a thrown object, etc. – is there a handy cheat sheet somewhere outlining which ST to use for each? I wouldn't mind having something like that on hand.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
Fair enough. (Though you mean overpriced at 5/level, right?) And if that's the case, then SS or Innate Attack should have its cost adjusted. (Probably a well-discussed topic somewhere in the forum!)
I'd got it cost swapped with Lifting ST. Though at 5/level it's way over-priced, except possibly in DF games where stacking Weapon Mastery and armour penetration enchantments bring its value up.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
Good find. I believe RAW text makes clear that SS definitely counts for meeting Min ST; the above clarifies that it also matters for speeding up polearms, etc. And for the sake of simplicity, I appreciate that both of these things rely on the same stat (SS); if one did but the other didn't, I'd probably keep forgetting which is which.

At the same time, though, I kind of like the opposite (not RAW) effect: Lifting ST matters for meeting Min ST and for readying heavy weapons, while SS only determines damage. I like the effect that it yields in, say, Catfolk (SS > LS) vs Dwarves (LS > SS). If SS governs damage but LS governs the size of the weapon you can use, you get the effect of Catfolk having to use relatively light weapons (though to good effect), while Dwarves find that their impressive LS goes to waste with light weapons. Bring in some big, heavy mauls, though, and the Dwarves become happy: their LS lets them wield the things, while the weapons' heft supplies the extra damage that the Dwarves' modest SS doesn't provide.

I prefer how that works out, but maybe there's a pitfall in there that I'm overlooking?

Technically, you could make it RAW:

NuLifting ST +1 [4]: Lifting ST [3] & Heavy Weapons Perk [1]

NuStriking ST +1 [4]: Striking ST +1 (-20%, doesn't affect weapon MinST) [4]

Alternately,



NuStriking ST +1 [4]: Striking ST +1 [5] and Quirk -1 ST for Weapon MinST [-1]

I can't see any pitfalls but if you think costs are balanced RAW, you probably want your modified Lifting ST and Striking ST to both cost 4/level.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: Striking Strength and Readying Heay Weapons

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Originally Posted by Infornific View Post
Technically, you could make it RAW:
Or you just shift it and don't worry about changing costs. Damage is still a greater value over encumbrance and Min ST.


I already shifted bows and crossbows over to Lifting ST, and no one complained in my games.
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