10-04-2013, 12:07 PM | #51 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: grappling a flier
Ack, you are really, really not reading what is being written for you. Kromm has answered you, clearly, three times.
ST 200 Hulk could have his ST defined in a few ways: "Its zero-range TK" = physics doesnt apply. Hulkster can exert 200 ST straight down exactly the same way Flyboy can exert ST 75 straight up. He has a power that lets him do it. "Its hyper-efficient muscle, doesnt weigh a lot" = A good chunk of Hulksters ST and HP are basically massless. For purposes of resisting being picked up by Flyboy, he has ST determined by his weight. See Kromms last post. Heck, your GM has even come into this thread, read what Kromm wrote, groked it, and thought it was a good idea. He has even stated he is thinking about how he wants this ST200 guy to be defined. Your strident objections have been addressed. You need to talk to your GM, and accept how he has this character defined.
__________________
My GURPS stuff |
10-04-2013, 12:08 PM | #52 | ||
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
|
Re: grappling a flier
Quote:
Quote:
Yep, that's exactly what I've said three or four times so far. All I'm adding is that the ensuing body slam won't be of very much consequence, because the ST 200 guy will only count as having HP 25 in the collision.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
||
10-04-2013, 12:14 PM | #53 | ||
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
|
Re: grappling a flier
Quote:
Quote:
There are two decisions to make: 1. Is my ST commensurate with my mass?If either is true, then ST is ST, HP are HP, and you can ignore the fancy math. If ST is totally wild and out of whack with mass due to powers, then you have to care about the math. A given supers campaign must assume one case or the other as its default. It's generally more fun to avoid math, ergo it's more fun to say that all ST comes with either mass or weird powers that let ST be used to resist everything, including airlifts. But the opposite default it possible! If the campaign hasn't selected a default, then that's a hole in the campaign contract, not a problem with the game system, and something to be resolved by the players and GM, not the game designers.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
||
10-04-2013, 12:15 PM | #54 |
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
|
Re: grappling a flier
I'm good with that. Having read it through several times, I am happy with that aspect. I'd just like to be able to fly off with the guy at all. Not happy with being chained down by the Grapple rules.
|
10-04-2013, 12:19 PM | #55 |
Join Date: Oct 2013
|
Re: grappling a flier
To paraphrase, I believe Kromm is suggesting that either a super with a high strength but low weight (like our Hulk-Like super in question) can go one of two ways. Either they have some sort of "Super inertia" that allows them to use their full strength for the purposes of keeping people they are grappling from moving, or they should get all the other benefits of having a low mass as well, altering the rules as written to essentially create a new type of strength specifically for such character.
Ie, being able to jump farther, taking less damage in collisions, being effected less by high gravity. But the Super does not have to take that option. They can have their high strength and get all the benefits of a high mass, including the ability to hold down a weaker flier regardless of their physical mass. Kromm has suggested a whole new type of Strength. It's a 'realistic' option but at the same time, it's a complex change to make, and an optional one for supers with that kind of strength. |
10-04-2013, 12:21 PM | #56 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
|
Re: grappling a flier
"Super inertia" is way more common than "massless strength" in comic books, so I personally feel that it's a more valid default for a superheroes campaign. However, that's just my opinion. I will say that not defining great ST one way or the other by default is going to create serious problems in any supers campaign, though.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
10-04-2013, 12:22 PM | #57 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
|
Re: grappling a flier
It's a one-time calculation. Put it on your character sheet, done. This value replaces ST for all rolls vs ST.
|
10-04-2013, 12:24 PM | #58 |
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
|
Re: grappling a flier
However, if the character uses the ST for Jumping rule, does that follow that he has massless ST automatically?
Because the character has already demonstrated a prodigious leaping capability. |
10-04-2013, 12:33 PM | #59 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Re: grappling a flier
Beaten to just about everything.
Quote:
For a trivial example not related to your situation, if the ST 200 guy was a flier, that would imply he can exert that ST 200 to the fullest straight down without an anchor. In that case, you're not flying anywhere. You can't drag Superman all over town by taking his feet off the ground. And it's not just fliers whose super ST doesn't play so simply. ST 200 guy can pick up a two-ton car in one hand and fling it. But if he does, does he get hurled in the opposite direction? For a low-angle throw with full respect to Newton, he's thrown the other way at twice the car's velocity! But supers tend not to smash themselves though walls with reaction when doing things like that, which leads to the possibility that their ST doesn't work exactly the same as impossibly powerful muscles. Quote:
There's nothing un-generic going on here.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
||
10-04-2013, 12:36 PM | #60 | |
Join Date: Oct 2013
|
Re: grappling a flier
Quote:
It's a tough call though, as I would essentially be altering the rules (with Kromm's advice) to suit realism better... which is a VERY slippery slope, especially with a player like Ack. No offense meant, Ack, but you are a pretty classic power gamer. If I alter one rule in favor of realism, every time you think of a new way to abuse physics to get what you want, you'll be coming back at me to change the rules a bit more... and a bit more. It would be nice if our gaming system perfectly emulated reality, (excepting of course where we WANT to break physics over our knee) but in the end, it's a game, and it's a whole lot easier to just use the rules we've got than to constantly rewrite them to better suit the universe we're envisioning together. Easy way, or hard way? *sighs* |
|
Tags |
kromm answer, kromm explanation |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|