09-27-2020, 06:23 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Dec 2018
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The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
Hello!
I apologize if this has been asked elsewhere. I've searched the forums, and couldn't find a conclusive answer. The question is simple: when performing a Dual-weapon Attack, what exactly counts as a 'weapon'? I know that fists count as weapons, so would a character with three or more arms be able to perform a Triple- (or more) Weapon Attack? If so, at what penalty? And even without Extra Arms, what about legs and teeth? Would a perfectly normal human be able to perform a Quintuple-weapon attack by attacking once with both hands, both feet, and their teeth in a single turn? Thank you in advance, and have a great day! |
09-27-2020, 07:17 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
I believe that Dual-Weapon Attack actually functions as X-Weapon Attack, where X is the number of manipulators (arms) available to the character. So, a character with eight arms like an octopus could make eight attacks per turn at a -4 to skill. Of course, I may be remembering things incorrectly, as the discussion occurred a couple years ago.
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09-27-2020, 07:22 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
Dual-Weapon Attack lets you attack with two weapons, not all weapons. So having more arms will give you more options of which two weapons to use, but you're still limited to attacking with two.
It shouldn't break anything to house-rule in a Triple-Weapon Attack, Quadruple-Weapon Attack, etc. technique following the precedent for Rapid Strikes: stacking the penalty. So, dual weapon attack is -4/-8 normally or -4/-4 with ambidexterity. Triple weapon attack would be -8/-12/-12 normally or -8/-8/-8 with ambidexterity. Quadruple weapon attack would be -12/-16/-16/-16 normally or -12/-12/-12/-12 with ambidexterity, etc. |
09-27-2020, 07:28 AM | #4 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
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09-28-2020, 06:55 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
I think the problem is that it's implied by the name, we should probably drop 'dual' (two) and call it "multi-weapon attack" instead?
One could view Ambidexterity [5] as buying off a built-in disadvantage called Off Hand [-5] which if using "Modifying Beings With One or Two Arms" is like a -50% disadvantage on one of the Arm [10] beings start with by default. Another way to look at it might be to assume "off hands by default" and On Hand [5] being a built-in advantage everyone starts with, with "On Hand 2" being what Ambidexterity upgrades it to. In that case we could look at it being like a +50% enhancement to Extra Arms. I like that since it'd make people start paying more points for that benefit. Making EA more expensive also gives us more flexibility to increase the cost of Extra Legs to 5 per leg instead of 5 per pair. |
09-28-2020, 09:08 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
I think tying the number of attacks directly to the number of arms leads to trouble, given that dual-weapon attack could plausibly also use attacks that aren't arm-based, like wing/tail strikers, headbutts, kicks, etc, and there's no reason extra arms should make those any easier.
Also, dual weapon attack's -4 vs. rapid strike's -6 always seemed to me to be a technique version of Extra Attack and Extra Attack (Multi-Strike), respectively. Since Rapid Strike lets you stack additional pseudo-levels of 'Extra Attack (Multi-Strike)' for -6 per level, having a multi-weapon attack stack extra -4s for additional pseudo-levels of 'Extra Attack' strikes me as more logical than saying you get Extra Attack Infinity because you took -4 to your attack roll. |
09-29-2020, 10:23 AM | #7 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
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1) DWA has the -1 defend if you use against same target, RS does not 2) RS is bought off as a 'Combination' which has to be uber-specific (must specify not just the weapon but the TYPE OF ATTACK like swing v thrust) 3) as above but combinations also need to specify the hit location too, while buying up DWA does not 4) combinations also can be predictable and give foes a defense bonus against them due to style familiarity, unlike DWA Quote:
That might help explain while it's more expensive than Extra Legs (5 per pair, 1/4 the cost) Of course... part of the complication here is I've actually seen DWA used with legs (MA190 " a kick, a punch, or both, thrown as a Dual-Weapon Attack.") and Kromm also said in 2009 it's not specifiy to body parts http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...99&postcount=7 If that's the case then the pricing of Extra Arms seems to be something like "extends the DWA cap but only if you're using arms" ie so you can't throw a quadruple kick as a centaur just because you're an octopod who also has 2 extra arms. In which case I guess there's no way to throw quadruple kicks using DWA unless we could make that an Extra Legs enhancement? |
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09-29-2020, 12:48 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Sep 2018
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
Extra Arms makes it pretty clear that no amount of extra arms allows additional attacks without the Extra attack advantage. It would seem to imply the maximum amount of strikes you can make with an attack is two. I could see allowing two dual-weapon attacks if you have an extra attack.
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09-29-2020, 03:57 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
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AOA (Double) should probable be renamed (AOA Extra) since it doesn't double extra/dual-weapon attacks or rapid-strike combinations too. It did used to in 3e double "Full Coordination" but that cost twice as much, so "Cosmic +100%: doubled on AOA" is probably a reasonable modifier for Extra Attack. Probably overpriced actually since you could just buy 2 attacks for that |
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09-30-2020, 12:13 AM | #10 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?
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Last edited by kirbwarrior; 09-30-2020 at 05:32 PM. Reason: typo |
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