Simplified Jumping?

[AlexanderHowl]

One thing to keep an eye out on is Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) with Super Jump. Since diffuse characters only take 2 HP of damage from collisions, a character with HP 14, Basic Move 7, Super Jump 12, and Sumo Wrestling at DX+2 can deal 420d+840 crushing damage at the cost of 2 HP of damage. As the total price is likely 276 CP, that is a heck of a hit for a 500 CP character.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

One thing to keep an eye out on is Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) with Super Jump. Since diffuse characters only take 2 HP of damage from collisions, a character with HP 14, Basic Move 7, Super Jump 12, and Sumo Wrestling at DX+2 can deal 420d+840 crushing damage at the cost of 2 HP of damage. As the total price is likely 276 CP, that is a heck of a hit for a 500 CP character.

I submit that in order to take only 2HP damage from a slam, the diffuse character will need to be fairly dispersed, and thus immune to slams, which should also make them unable to slam. If they're comapct enough to do damage in a slam like that, they are also going to be hitting with most of their body, so the slam would count against them as an area-effect attack, and they'd take full damage themselves as well.

In other words, no, they wouldn't be doing massive slam damage and not taking much of any damage themselves.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Rupert

In other words, no, they wouldn't be doing massive slam damage and not taking much of any damage themselves.

Such a player would just carry a shield and do a shield slam such that the shield is what makes impact instead. A better fix would be a few quick revisions to the slam rules...

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I submit that in order to take only 2HP damage from a slam, the diffuse character will need to be fairly dispersed, and thus immune to slams, which should also make them unable to slam. If they're comapct enough to do damage in a slam like that, they are also going to be hitting with most of their body, so the slam would count against them as an area-effect attack, and they'd take full damage themselves as well.

In other words, no, they wouldn't be doing massive slam damage and not taking much of any damage themselves.

That is not how the RAW works. Slamming damage is based solely on HP and velocity, so 20 HP of jello will do as much damage at 100 yards/second as 20 HP of iron.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by naloth

Such a player would just carry a shield and do a shield slam such that the shield is what makes impact instead. A better fix would be a few quick revisions to the slam rules...

In Howl's example of 420d+840 crushing one would imagine that since this would destroy standard shields, at some point that's either going to limit the damage or cause carryover damage to the one who was holding the shield.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

One thing to keep an eye out on is Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) with Super Jump. Since diffuse characters only take 2 HP of damage from collisions, a character with HP 14, Basic Move 7, Super Jump 12, and Sumo Wrestling at DX+2 can deal 420d+840 crushing damage at the cost of 2 HP of damage. As the total price is likely 276 CP, that is a heck of a hit for a 500 CP character.

The ground is pretty big, how much of an SM do you need to qualify as an area attack?

The way fall damage works (first limbs take it, then torso takes excess beyond that needing to cripple) feels a lot like an area attack.

B400 has Large Area Injury rules

A melee attack from an attacker whose Size Modifier exceeds that of his target by seven or more is also a large-area injury

Since this applies to:

any damage described as being “area effect” or “cone,” and any external explosion

We know these things hurt diffuse normally, so the "also" (SM+7 attacks) sounds like a pretty good guideline on giants being able to harm diffuse creatures in full via their attacks being AE crushing.

The earth is certainly a giant creature!

[Ejidoth]

Just because it has a point cost doesn't mean it's a thing that exists in any particular setting. I'm no too worried about the Diffuse guy with Super Jump 12 because Super Jump at that level (x4096 jumping distance? something like ten or more times the speed of sound in jumping Move?) doesn't make physical sense, even for Supers really, so nobody in any setting I'm going to run is going to have it.

If it did come up, I think it's reasonable to argue that Diffuse just isn't all that Diffuse at thousands-of-miles-per-hour impacts with large objects. I'd probably have them take full impact damage. But, seriously, it shouldn't happen.

RAW is pretty good at handling human scales. You need to be flexible when dealing with weird situations.

Anyway: Thanks to the people that pitched in with the Dungeon Fantasy examples and those that helped me revise the vertical jump heights. I've got most of what I was looking for. I'm satisfied with the slightly-low-but-easy-to-remember Move/2 yards horizontal (doubled for a running jump, halved in combat) and the slightly-high-but-easy-to-remember Move/2 feet vertical (halved in combat). I do have one secondary thought, though:
Should a running jump really benefit vertical jump height? I'm not sure I understand the physics of that. Why would having greater horizontal speed before you jump affect your vertical jump height at all? I don't know much about jumping in real life, so maybe this is a thing and I'm just missing something.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by naloth

What do you use for ST costs? I don't believe I've seen it.

https://www.gamesdiner.com/rules-nug...r-cost-for-st/

The simple thing is each 'step' on the SM table amount of ST is worth 50pts (10-15-20-30-50-70-100). It lines up close to Growth's scaling that just making Growth 50pts instead of buying extra ST might not be a bad idea.

Originally Posted by naloth

Growth is the opposite problem since you buy everything piecemeal. It makes building afflictions that improve SM by a step or two rather annoying.

Yeah I totally understand what you mean. That's why I like the idea of reversing Shrinking and multiplying things like ST, DR, Weight as how Shrinking decreases them.

Originally Posted by Ejidoth

Should a running jump really benefit vertical jump height? I'm not sure I understand the physics of that. Why would having greater horizontal speed before you jump affect your vertical jump height at all? I don't know much about jumping in real life, so maybe this is a thing and I'm just missing something.

In simplistic terms, a jump is moving your horizontal momentum into a both horizontal and vertical direction so the faster you can go the further you'll go at that given angle.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

That is not how the RAW works. Slamming damage is based solely on HP and velocity, so 20 HP of jello will do as much damage at 100 yards/second as 20 HP of iron.

Even with the RAW getting that much damage requires two rounds on concentration before the jump (B352, "Jumping in Combat"), and the results on a miss will be spectacular - it's a jump, so the jumper is committed to another four turns of movement at (for the suggested 420d+ slam) 1200+ miles per hour. If they hit anything like a wall it will be large area injury, though probably capped by the wall coming apart (or the character, if they've only 14HP).

[AlexanderHowl]

Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) does not suffer more damage from large-area attacks, only area effects, cones, and explosions do normal damage (Basic, p. 380). While area effects, cones, and explosions are examples of large-area attacks and deal normal damage to Diffuse targets, other large-area attacks do not do normal damage against Diffuse targets. It does not matter how big a baseball bat is, it only deals 2 HP to a puddle of water with each hit.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) does not suffer more damage from large-area attacks, only area effects, cones, and explosions do normal damage (Basic, p. 380). While area effects, cones, and explosions are examples of large-area attacks and deal normal damage to Diffuse targets, other large-area attacks do not do normal damage against Diffuse targets. It does not matter how big a baseball bat is, it only deals 2 HP to a puddle of water with each hit.

If you had a baseball bat that was 2 yards diameter and 10 yards long that would seem a lot like an AE to me.

AEs are still AEs even with Bombardment where they don't hit everything so why not huge limbs?