Maximum Realistic Reaction Bonus

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

this character is actually a (secretly) gengineered human, the result of a millenary eugenetics project (she secretly is a direct descendant of Alexander the Great) combined with state of the art biotechnology. Her reputation is due to being a world-famous former child prodigy, Nobel Prize winner (she programmed the very first Artificial Intelligence in the setting), founder/main figure of the "Exvolvere" (a revolutionary artistic and cultural movement that breaks with the traditional definition of reality with an emphasis on virtual arts, illusions and holography), and founder/leader of the "Transhumanist Church" (the fifth largest religion in the setting).

Well, the first thing I would ask is about the point cost. The primary traits aren't a big deal: 20 points for Charisma 4, 10 for Voice, 16 for Very Handsome/Beautiful, and if you figure everyone recognizes her, always, another 20 for Reputation, total 56. Pointwise that's not really a big deal. But I'm looking at the rest of what you describe, and it seems like it's going to cost an insane number of points: She's got to have really high skill in computer technology, art (including Connoisseur, as the founder of a new artistic movement), and religious activities—not just Theology or Philosophy and Religious Ritual, but Propaganda, perhaps Public Speaking or Writing, one of Leadership or Administration, probably Finance to raise funds. And then she probably has a high IQ (cheaper than buying maybe three Talents) and being bioengineered may give her elevated other stats too. If you have enough points to build a character with all that, what are the other players doing with theirs?

If I were your GM, I'd be asking if you need all those things to realize her character concept. You still haven't specified what her Reputation is for, which makes it hard to judge how legitimate it is, but +4 is a huge bonus; it says that in the area where it applies, she just has to mention her name (or have her face recognized), and the normal person will voluntarily be helpful, answer her questions, and so on (and that there's less than a 5% chance that people will react badly to her). I'd also wonder about a negative Reputation with some people; after all, she's founded a new religion, and people who do that stir up passionate opposition—look at how much opposition the Sikhs have faced, or the Baha'i. Especially a religion that has grown in her own lifetime to become the fifth largest (in the world?) is going to be seen as a threat; she might be bitterly hated by devout Christians, Muslims, Hindus, or some other faith.

Charisma 4 is really high. I figure Charisma 1 is typical for the most popular people at an average high school; Charisma 2 for successful politicians; Charisma 3 maybe for major leaders. I suppose I could see Charisma 4 for the founder of a religion. But with all the other advantages you've given her, raising it that high may be redundant; being above average at dealing with people could be represented as Charisma 1 on top of her natural advantages. Alternatively, you could still give her Charisma 4 (she did found a successful new faith) but dropping Appearance to Attractive, as in, "She's good looking, but the intensity of her personality is so high that you hardly notice." (I would go for her having Voice; your account of her suggests that she's a compelling speaker, and Voice would help with that. But Voice also is something of a substitute for Charisma.)

The GM might could also charge you a 50-point Unusual Background for "bioengineered prodigy."

Really, a lot of this is going to depend on your GM's approval and campaign concept. You want to play a world-famous figure, one who's always going to be in the spotlight in several different ways, kind of like playing the Dalai Lama. But such a person can't very well go on adventures; they're too visible, and too many people will want to make sure they're safe. And you want to play a character who has an immense ability to ask for things and get what she wants; even if she has Reputation -4 with a lot of conservative people, when she's face to face, that gets her +2 (Appearance) +4 (Charisma) +2 (Voice) -4 (Reputation) = +4 net to get them to work with her; about 10% of such adversarial people will become her devoted followers after meeting her, and the typical reaction will be Good. That can short circuit a lot of scenarios! So your GM could legitimately rule this out as unsuitable even without calling it "cinematic"—though I would say that a +10 reaction bonus is cinematic all by itself, no matter how many or how few traits provide it. And if the GM is going to handwave all the side effects of being compellingly beautiful and instantly recognizable and let her be conveniently anonymous when the adventure requires it, that by itself would be cinematic (as in, "We're not going to let realistic details get in the way of the story"). (Note that your character could work as an NPC in a certain type of campaign: The person the PCs need to help or rescue, but whose mere presence attracts attention to them!)

With all that said, though, if you have all those positive modifiers, then yes, there will be times when all of them apply. If you're asking for help face to face, then (a) they can see you, so +2 for Appearance, (b) they probably know who you are, so +4 for Reputation, (c) they're interacting with you, so +4 for Charisma, and (d) you're speaking to them, so +2 for Voice adds up to either +12 reaction modifier (the very worst rolled reaction is Good, and 90% of reactions are Excellent) or +12 to an Influence skill (almost guaranteed Good reactions). There aren't rules for cancelling them out. And that's precisely why the GM should start looking closely at your character build once you get up past +4 or +5!

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

For one of them, it does. And yet I think that the way it does so is part of the antagonistic and unfair approach I mentioned.

Agreed. It's very much in vein with the Play Dirty philosophy which I find inimical to good play.

[Alonsua]

Hello there and thanks for following the thread this far,

her Reputation is based on being a "world-famous former child prodigy, Nobel Prize winner, celebrated engineer and founder/leader of the Transhuman Church". Let´s put an example for how far can her bonuses bring her in an utterly non realistic situation:

She, as the leader of a major global religion, arrives to the Imperial Palace in Tokyo flying her private jet and, escorted by her platoon of bodyguards, demands to see the emperor Akihito. She gains audience with him and asks to the emperor to abdicate and name her ruler/empress in his place. This is hugely ridiculous so -10 is placed... And she rolls:

3d6+2(Voice)+2(Diplomacy)+6(Appearance)+4(Charisma )+4(Reputation)+6(Status)-8(Status)-10(Modifier) for a final 3d6+6, granting a Very Good Reaction 62.5% of times and an Excellent Reaction 25.93% of times, almost guaranteeing that the Emperor chuckles, says something about being sorry of having sat in her throne, stands up and goes on his way.

Now let´s say that she has prepared herself for the audience with an expert of Fashion Sense (not that hard to kill the -2 penalty from the Status differences) and that she brought the Transhumanism to Akihito´s attention (he should have already acknoledged it, since it is a major religion) granting her +1 from Clerical Investment. Now she rolls against 3d6+9, securing an Excellent Reaction 62.5% of times and a Very Good Reaction 90.74% of times...

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

She gains audience with him and asks to the emperor to abdicate and name her ruler in his place. This is hugely ridiculous so -10 is placed... And she rolls:

3d6+2(Voice)+2(Diplomacy)+6(Appearance)+4(Charisma )+4(Reputation)+6(Status)-8(Status)-10(Modifier) for a final 3d6+6, granting a Very Good Reaction 62.5% of times and an Excellent Reaction 25.93% of times, almost guaranteeing that the Emperor chuckles, says something about being sorry of having sat in her throne and going on his way.

The mistake here is to assume that a Very Good or Excellent reaction means automatically agreeing to anything she says. In this circumstance, I'd interpret a Very Good reaction to mean the Emperor briefly frowns, gives her a rather stern lecture on why that sort of joke just Isn't Done, but then lightens up and invites her to dinner, during which he'd probably agree to a reasonable request. And on an Excellent reaction, he'd briefly frown... then burst into laughter, ask his courtiers if they've ever heard such a great joke, and then, still smiling, ask her to attend a major state banquet, during which he might agree to many reasonable requests.

The reaction system has to be interpreted in terms of reasonable results. Reaction and Influence rolls aren't mind control. Just applying a penalty for unreasonable requests isn't enough, you also have to assume that a highly positive reaction to an unreasonable request just means the person does what's reasonable.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

The mistake here is to assume that a Very Good or Excellent reaction means automatically agreeing to anything she says. In this circumstance, I'd interpret a Very Good reaction to mean the Emperor briefly frowns, gives her a rather stern lecture on why that sort of joke just Isn't Done, but then lightens up and invites her to dinner, during which he'd probably agree to a reasonable request. And on an Excellent reaction, he'd briefly frown... then burst into laughter, ask his courtiers if they've ever heard such a great joke, and then, still smiling, ask her to attend a major state banquet, during which he might agree to many reasonable requests.

The reaction system has to be interpreted in terms of reasonable results. Reaction and Influence rolls aren't mind control. Just applying a penalty for unreasonable requests isn't enough, you also have to assume that a highly positive reaction to an unreasonable request just means the person does what's reasonable.

Let´s quote some of the lines in the table so we can clear it:

For Very Good
"Requests for aid are granted unless they are totally unreasonable. Any useful information NPCs have is volunteered freely." "Loyalty: The NPC works very hard, and risks his life if need be. Under most circumstances, he puts the PCs’ interests ahead of his own."
For Excellent
"General reaction: The NPC is extremely impressed by the PCs, and acts in their best interests at all times, within the limits of his own ability." "Requests for aid are granted. NPCs help in every way within their power, offering extra aid." "Loyalty: The NPC worships the PCs or their cause, works incredibly hard, puts the PCs’ interests ahead of his own at all times, and would even die for them."

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

...
She, as the leader of a major global religion, arrives to the Imperial Palace in Tokyo flying her private jet and, escorted by her platoon of bodyguards, demands to see the emperor Akihito. She gains audience with him and asks to the emperor to abdicate and name her ruler/empress in his place. This is hugely ridiculous so -10 is placed...

This isn't just hugely ridiculous, it's impossible - unless she happens to be a direct descendant of Amaterasu Omikami, the religion she leads happens to be Shinto, and she happens to be male.

Some things simply are not possible, no matter how good a reaction bonus the character might have. One may as well ask politely that water flow uphill.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by robkelk

This isn't just hugely ridiculous, it's impossible - unless she happens to be a direct descendant of Amaterasu Omikami, the religion she leads happens to be Shinto, and she happens to be male.

Some things simply are not possible, no matter how good a reaction bonus the character might have. One may as well ask politely that water flow uphill.

Now you got rules for that:

-10 – "Impossible. No sane person would attempt such a task... A Driving roll to steer a car with the knees while firing a bazooka two handed during a chase through a blizzard."

So she probably just claims to be in part the living avatar of Amaterasu Omikami herself, who is mean to bring peace and prosperity to all of japan xD

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

Now you got rules for that:

-10 – "Impossible. No sane person would attempt such a task... A Driving roll to steer a car with the knees while firing a bazooka two handed during a chase through a blizzard."

That's still barely possible, if extremely unlikely - the word "impossible" is being used figuratively there. A non-sane person can still make the attempt. This is "cut through steel armour with a butter knife" difficulty.

Taking over the oldest extant imperial office on Earth when you aren't even Japanese simply is not possible. This is "cut through steel armour with your naked finger" impossible.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by robkelk

That's still barely possible, if extremely unlikely - the word "impossible" is being used figuratively there. A non-sane person can still make the attempt. This is "cut through steel armour with a butter knife" difficulty.

Taking over the oldest extant imperial office on Earth when you aren't even Japanese simply is not possible. This is "cut through steel armour with your naked finger" impossible.

For comparison, if you are blind, you have penalties for various tasks: certain skills such as Lockpicking are -5 for Work by Touch, and combat is -10, or -7 if you're accustomed to being blind rather than newly blinded. But other tasks are simply impossible: For example, you can't read the words on a computer screen, even if you have IQ and Per 30, because you don't have the appropriate sense to detect them.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by robkelk

That's still barely possible, if extremely unlikely - the word "impossible" is being used figuratively there. A non-sane person can still make the attempt. This is "cut through steel armour with a butter knife" difficulty.

Taking over the oldest extant imperial office on Earth when you aren't even Japanese simply is not possible. This is "cut through steel armour with your naked finger" impossible.

Well, I forgot to mention that she is japanese... In addition to the fact that she doesn´t actually lack any sense, contrary to the read a screen while being blind example, actually and since she is already running a multibillionaire organization with over half billion followers she should manage very fine if she is ever granted the seat...

Ps. She is not a PC, if it makes any difference she is a major character of the setting, inspired by a mix of Steve Jobs/Mark Zuckerberg with Albert Wesker or Alexia Ashford and Joan of Arc.