Strength Cost in High and Ultra Tech Campaigns

[Captain Joy]

I'm considering lowing the character point cost of ST in my Star Trek campaign. But generally, how do people feel about reducing the cost of ST in campaigns where high strength is not so valuable? If you think repricing ST for such campaigns is a bad idea, why? If you think it's a good idea, what changes can you recommend.

My impression is that the sweet spot for the RAW cost of ST is Dungeon Fantasy type campaigns, but that there should be a campaign-switch-type alternate pricing for high tech and ultra tech campaigns within which damage dealing is rarely accomplish though muscle powered weapons.

[weby]

It depends a lot on your type of scifi game, specially the point totals and what limits you have on attributes.

Basically lifting ST and HP are very valuable often in such games and given that lifting ST is exotic and hitpoints should not be more than ST +/- 30% in RAW, if you have the same limitations the ST is definitely worth it quite often, if you allow lifting ST and/or higher variations of HP then the value is lower.

Basic ST value is often wrong, it tends to be too high more often than too low. Things like super games have innate attack be cheaper, any game with low combat and gear load will have very low incentive for such and any game allowing buying lifting ST and more hit points and does not have melee combat will have low use for ST.

As specifically for Star Trek, the value is a lot less, due to not carrying much gear often, hitpoints being useless part of the time and so on. While Kirk seems to get into melee and unarmed combats quite often, the later Star Treks have somewhat less of such.

So for Startrek games I would likely not lower the price of ST, instead saying to players that it is a fairly useless attribute and no not buy it at all in most cases..

[Maz]

ST one of the most useful attributes to have with no additional skill cost.

Even in Star Trek.

• Have to grab hold of someone so they do not run away: Strength.
• The ship has run into trouble and the powers off, you have to force the doors open: Strength.
• Your on a planet suddenly there's a quake/bombardment, rubble falls and blocks the exist, how do you get out?: Strength.
• One of your redshirts gets wounded, you have to carry him home: Strength.

On top of that there is unarmed combat and HP. I am not big on Star Trek but from what I see they get into enough situations where phasers can't help them, but Strength can.

[Mark Skarr]

Use the Logarithmic ST from Pyramid #3-83. It overhauls ST from just about any perspective, and puts ST on the same scale as other attributes.

[Fred Brackin]

I would be more likely to change the whole chargen process than try and re-jigger just a few parts.

For something like Star Trek where beings with great personal ST sometimes show up )not just Kligons but Data too) but it wouldn't be worth the cost I'm more likely to go with chargen by concept and general power level achieved than just give everyone equal cp.

This also works in cases of conceivable Psionic Powers that cost too much for their actual effects. How much are Warp and Telecommunication worth when everyone has a transporter on their ship and surface to orbit communicator in the pockets?

ST that does fewer dice than common weapons is in the same boat.

[simply Nathan]

Me, I don't see how high ST gives you all that much in High Tech or Ultra Tech campaigns and wouldn't be averse to simply halving the cost of all ST-related trains while imposing limits on ST levels based on the hardness level of the sci-fi and the nature of the character.

For Supers, extremely high ST is absolutely in-genre and the number of powers as well as amazing technologies reduce the usefulness of pure raw ST. I think a base price of 1/level or 2/level for ST in such campaigns would be perfectly reasonable and, as Bricks are the most basic archetype it'd probably be better to err on the side of building them being "too cheap" and "too easy" rather than the reverse.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This also works in cases of conceivable Psionic Powers that cost too much for their actual effects. How much are Warp and Telecommunication worth when everyone has a transporter on their ship and surface to orbit communicator in the pockets?

Warp and Telecommunication can probably be see as having an intrinsic UB component in GURPS Characters, one that needs to be removed from them when they are used in a world where transported and tiny long-range communicators are in common use.

[Rindis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

For something like Star Trek where beings with great personal ST sometimes show up )not just Kligons but Data too) but it wouldn't be worth the cost I'm more likely to go with chargen by concept and general power level achieved than just give everyone equal cp.

My thought for Star Trek was that alien racial templates should normally get 'Cinematic ST', which would be ST 'only for wrestling/knockback/chewing the scenery' (destroying equipment, opening stuck doors...). Which I've never gotten around to trying to price.

Probably should include Lifting ST in that, but you don't see a lot of high-ST aliens carrying around a lot of heavy equipment. You do see them bending phasers, destroying monitors, maybe putting a dent in a wall.... Similarly, punches from them don't seem to do a lot more damage, but people go flying, have problems breaking a hold, etc.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

How much are Warp and Telecommunication worth when everyone has a transporter on their ship and surface to orbit communicator in the pockets?

Telecom turns into an Equipment Perk for your built-in com badge.

There's still a little bit of value in a self-contained transport, though. Consider all the times the ship can't transport you because the shields are up. (The other usual reason, the barbarians that hit you over the head and take your communicator away, doesn't apply once you drop a point on your Perk.) Transporter chambers are too big and complicated to turn into a Perk.

Your integral Warp is might still be stuck with the interfering environmental conditions, though, unless you do want to pay more points for it to have it work more reliably than Federation tech when it comes to mysterious minerals and arcane atmospheres. Q doesn't have those sorts of problems, for instance. Q-portation could be worth something.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

I'm considering lowing the character point cost of ST in my Star Trek campaign. But generally, how do people feel about reducing the cost of ST in campaigns where high strength is not so valuable? If you think repricing ST for such campaigns is a bad idea, why? If you think it's a good idea, what changes can you recommend.

My impression is that the sweet spot for the RAW cost of ST is Dungeon Fantasy type campaigns, but that there should be a campaign-switch-type alternate pricing for high tech and ultra tech campaigns within which damage dealing is rarely accomplish though muscle powered weapons.

I'm thinking that yes, the cost of both ST and DR probably should change.

But the justifiation is reduced when one remembers that similar to Claws and some other "Exotic" combat-relevant advantages, you always have your ST (and your natural DR) with you, whereas weapons (and armour) must be put away some of the time, including for social rasons.

I don't know about DR, but for ST I could see a -20% worldwide discount in any High-Tech world, TL5-8, and -40% in any Ultra-Tech world, TL9-12, although a more detailed approach, based directly on TLs rather than on "Tech Eras", could be -10% at TL6, -20% at TL7-8, -30% at TL9-10 and -40% at TL11-12.