Overlapping Allies & Rank

[Railstar]

Other threads of here reminded me of an issue I meant to cover.

GURPS Banestorm has a lovely section on Status and what Cost of Living gets you, most important aspect for this thread being the soldiers. For instance, Status 2 gives “Staff to run your home, including a squire or well-armed warrior or two.” Status 3 gives “A couple of squires or captains to support you in battle if necessary.” Status 4 gives “Some ordinary soldiers and their captain as guards.”

GURPS, Social Engineering, Pulling Rank, allows you to draw in support based on your position. So you can call in The Cavalry or Muscle as backup options, with a bonus if you are with your troops at the time (and generally another bonus for being appropriate orders, which will probably make the activation roll and auto-success).

Meanwhile, Allies are motivated largely by personal loyalty.

What happens when they overlap? A knight-captain might have Status 2 (=a squire or well-armed warrior), Military Rank 2 (= Command up to 20) & Ally Group (11-20 people) for a total of maybe 42 followers. What if the few squires/captains from Status 2 cost of living are also part of his command from Rank 2 and also part of his Ally Group? How would that change things?

With the Rank & Status thing, the overlap could be explained by the free status from Rank 2 (the servants at higher Status are presumed to come from the Rank), but what about Rank & Ally Group? Would the cost of either be affected?

Or generally, how would you handle such an overlap?

Thanks in advance.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Railstar

GURPS Banestorm has a lovely section on Status and what Cost of Living gets you, most important aspect for this thread being the soldiers. For instance, Status 2 gives “Staff to run your home, including a squire or well-armed warrior or two.” Status 3 gives “A couple of squires or captains to support you in battle if necessary.” Status 4 gives “Some ordinary soldiers and their captain as guards.”

GURPS, Social Engineering, Pulling Rank, allows you to draw in support based on your position. So you can call in The Cavalry or Muscle as backup options, with a bonus if you are with your troops at the time (and generally another bonus for being appropriate orders, which will probably make the activation roll and auto-success).

Meanwhile, Allies are motivated largely by personal loyalty.

What happens when they overlap? A knight-captain might have Status 2 (=a squire or well-armed warrior), Military Rank 2 (= Command up to 20) & Ally Group (11-20 people) for a total of maybe 42 followers. What if the few squires/captains from Status 2 cost of living are also part of his command from Rank 2 and also part of his Ally Group? How would that change things?

With the Rank & Status thing, the overlap could be explained by the free status from Rank 2 (the servants at higher Status are presumed to come from the Rank), but what about Rank & Ally Group? Would the cost of either be affected?

Or generally, how would you handle such an overlap?

I don’t see a problem, as Status 2, Military Rank 2 and Ally Group (11-20) grant different abilities.

The squire or well-armed warrior or two granted by Status 2 isn’t guaranteed to have the loyalty of an Ally or member of an Ally Group. As for Military Rank 2, I would rule that the military supporters granted by Status 2 are subsumed by the Military Rank, i.e. whatever military supporters you get from Status are also always and already part of the force you command from your Military Rank. Military Rank is about what you have available to “field”, Status simply ensures that there is someone available to perform the secondary, “off-duty” duties that the position entails at a personal level. As such, I don’t see an overlap great enough to warrant a discount for either ability.

As for Ally Group, they are wholly reliable and at the heart of it, on your side, to a degree that is not implied for the group you would receive from Military Rank. Assume for the moment that your Ally Group size is only 15, rather than 20, and that they are the rank-and-file guardsmen who are commanded by the sergeants and captain, who make up the rest of your 20 men granted by Military Rank. To the extent they are aware of your intentions and orders they will disobey or turn on the sergeants and captain if they attempt to betray your cause/disobey your orders/change your plan.

The fact that your Ally Group is the same group granted by your Military Rank strikes me as a 0-point feature. Yes, you only have half as many potential troops as you might have if they were two distinct groups but you get the best of both worlds with them combined. They will obey your “stupid orders” from your Military Rank, which an Ally Group could be uncooperative about and if they see a way to make “your stupid orders” work in your favour if they just tweak their interpretation/forget that “unimportant” clause in the orders, they will; which the troops granted by your Military Rank might not, especially if it won’t change the odds of their personal survival.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Railstar

Other threads of here reminded me of an issue I meant to cover.

GURPS Banestorm has a lovely section on Status and what Cost of Living gets you, most important aspect for this thread being the soldiers. For instance, Status 2 gives “Staff to run your home, including a squire or well-armed warrior or two.” Status 3 gives “A couple of squires or captains to support you in battle if necessary.” Status 4 gives “Some ordinary soldiers and their captain as guards.”

GURPS, Social Engineering, Pulling Rank, allows you to draw in support based on your position. So you can call in The Cavalry or Muscle as backup options, with a bonus if you are with your troops at the time (and generally another bonus for being appropriate orders, which will probably make the activation roll and auto-success).

Meanwhile, Allies are motivated largely by personal loyalty.

What happens when they overlap? A knight-captain might have Status 2 (=a squire or well-armed warrior), Military Rank 2 (= Command up to 20) & Ally Group (11-20 people) for a total of maybe 42 followers. What if the few squires/captains from Status 2 cost of living are also part of his command from Rank 2 and also part of his Ally Group? How would that change things?

With the Rank & Status thing, the overlap could be explained by the free status from Rank 2 (the servants at higher Status are presumed to come from the Rank), but what about Rank & Ally Group? Would the cost of either be affected?

Or generally, how would you handle such an overlap?

Thanks in advance.

I don't know how to handle the details of Gurps rules. I do know how I would justify it as a backstory. The PC would be the Patron of the Ally Group he is taking in civilian life and his Millitary Rank is given him to relate him to the wider organization. For instance, a given rich Athenian commissions a trieme. He is the most distinguished man in his deme and the crew are recruited there. Or a Highland regiment in the British army maned primarily by a given clan and coloneled by a given chief.