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Old 05-29-2020, 06:17 AM   #51
RogerBW
 
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Default Re: cold iron

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Iron is everywhere now and in most fictional settings. It's hard to get many players captivated if the big baddies are terrified of the metal buttons in your jeans, or killable with a cast off letter opener or rusty pair of scissors.
Not impossible, certainly, but not for mainstream RPG audiences, IMO.
On this model, what you want is a modern setting in which it's good for the Fair Folk that, e.g., cars don't have anything like as much iron in them as they did twenty years ago.
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Old 05-29-2020, 06:55 AM   #52
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Default Re: cold iron

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
On the other hand, in some worlds, magic may work by folk categories, not by science, and then steel might be different.
Which may change from time to time. So maybe cold iron used to be all iron, but as folk started thinking it's some special subcategory, it became nigh-inapplicable, making the fae essentially lose a vulnerability.
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:18 AM   #53
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Default Re: cold iron

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Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
On this model, what you want is a modern setting in which it's good for the Fair Folk that, e.g., cars don't have anything like as much iron in them as they did twenty years ago.
Even 20-some years ago there were urban fantasy novels with that premise. Some elves had got involved in auto racing, because polymers, ceramics, aluminum, etc. were so much more usable for such purposes than they had previously been. The main human character drives a classic Mustang expressly because it's solid Detroit steel and faeries can't touch him when he's driving it.
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:42 AM   #54
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Default Re: cold iron

I looked through my copy of Larousse Dictionary of World Folklore (1995). There is no mention of steel under Iron or Faeries, nor does it have it's own entry. Unless you want to take the stance that turning iron into steel is some sort of alchemical process that changes the innate nature of the iron, steel should be similar in effect to iron.

Interestingly, the last paragraph under Iron notes that most early iron used was from meteriorites, which was seen as a gift from the gods (and also why it viewed as a magical protection in cultures around the world). I think what we have are two different myths that have merged into one myth, a gift from th gods and the progress of man to gain dominance over his environment (including fairies, which are often viewed as part of nature).
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:40 PM   #55
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Default Re: cold iron

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Originally Posted by copeab View Post
Some creature myths just get diminished by the progress of technology.

Creatures only vulnerable to iron are certainly scary in a setting where the best weapons are made of brass. Also, they don't have much to fear from modern firearms (polymer or aluminum construction firing lead bullets).
Most mid and large caliber commercial bullets now are copper jacketed lead.

And the lead is usually lead and some other metal (often lead, antimony, and tin as an alloy in various proportions.)

We never hear of monsters allergic to copper or lead... except roman emperors and their long term lead poisoning.
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:12 PM   #56
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Default Re: cold iron

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Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
On this model, what you want is a modern setting in which it's good for the Fair Folk that, e.g., cars don't have anything like as much iron in them as they did twenty years ago.
Ehn. The typical passenger car is 65% iron by weight. Less than it used to be, but still plenty. Something with an iron allergy couldn't even open the door.
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:32 AM   #57
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Default Re: cold iron

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Originally Posted by Inky View Post
I wonder if steel counted as iron for this purpose.
Historically iron and steel are the same thing. Nobody would have understood the compositional differences anyway until the 18th century at the earliest, iron just came in a wide range of variations.
"Steel" is the standard Germanic word, iron is an oddity that turned up pretty much only in Anglo-Saxon, so anything an English speaker called "iron", speakers of every other Germanic language would have called something akin to "steel". When other languages needed a distinction they generally call steel sharp iron in Romance languages for example iron is derived from ferro, steel is generally something like acero, "sharp", English cognate accurate. Presumably at the time English speakers first thought they needed to distinguish, the good stuff came from Germanic speaking places.
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Old 06-17-2020, 06:19 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Historically iron and steel are the same thing. Nobody would have understood the compositional differences anyway until the 18th century at the earliest, iron just came in a wide range of variations.
"Steel" is the standard Germanic word, iron is an oddity that turned up pretty much only in Anglo-Saxon, so anything an English speaker called "iron", speakers of every other Germanic language would have called something akin to "steel". When other languages needed a distinction they generally call steel sharp iron in Romance languages for example iron is derived from ferro, steel is generally something like acero, "sharp", English cognate accurate. Presumably at the time English speakers first thought they needed to distinguish, the good stuff came from Germanic speaking places.
At least in medieval time and in French,
"acier" (steel) is whatever can be quenched ("sharp") ,
"fer" is either
whatever cannot be quenched (cast iron, wrought iron)
OR
iron in any form (ore, iron, steel, cast iron, wrought iron...)

Although you will find many text using one word or the other more or less at random.

The distinction by carbon content is late 18th century, as you said. (with early work by Réaumur who got the right ideas but did not identify carbon as the key)
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Old 06-17-2020, 08:23 PM   #59
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Default Re: cold iron

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Even 20-some years ago there were urban fantasy novels with that premise. Some elves had got involved in auto racing, because polymers, ceramics, aluminum, etc. were so much more usable for such purposes than they had previously been. The main human character drives a classic Mustang expressly because it's solid Detroit steel and faeries can't touch him when he's driving it.
Harry Dresden's beetle served much the same purpose from time to time … although the Winter Court later provided him with a 50s Oldsmobile Hearse so go figure...
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