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Old 12-13-2020, 10:08 AM   #1
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default LE Staff Solutions

This is a thread for discussing ways to balance the Staff spell.

The two ways I am looking at trying out are:
- Making the Mana stat of Staves tied to the wizards ST rather than IQ. Bringing wizards back to their glory days of pumping iron and ending Molly's career.*
- Adding Staff Alternate spells that aren't compatible.
~ Opus/Tome that helps with out of combat casting. (Have fully figured out how yet.)
~ Focus/Trinket that bust DX & Creation range rather than Mana & Occult attack.

What are some ideas and ways you all have come up with for dealing with the Staff spell?

*Idea courtesy of Musings from Myriangia.
https://myriangia.wordpress.com/2020...ing-the-staff/
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Old 12-13-2020, 11:09 AM   #2
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

I don't think the staff is unbalanced. What's the problem? By the time a wizard has risen to high enough stat total that they have all the staff options and have filled it with mana, a hero (or non-staff-using wizard) will have developed several thousands of XP worth of unique abilities that are just as useful.
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Old 12-13-2020, 11:13 AM   #3
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

Balance to staff mana and occult strike is the cash to buy magic weapons and items.

If you like just use the Staff (and Spell Shield) spells from the Wizard boardgame and tell wizards to buy Powerstones.
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Old 12-13-2020, 12:44 PM   #4
Shostak
 
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Location: New England
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

My staff nerfs can be found on my occasional blog, Musings from Myriangia. Among these is tying staff mana capacity to the wizard's ST, not IQ.
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Old 12-13-2020, 03:14 PM   #5
TippetsTX
 
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
What are some ideas and ways you all have come up with for dealing with the Staff spell?
Short answer... remove the STAFF spells.

Much longer answer... no spell should be so essential that you can't create a viable wizard build without it. That's usually a good sign that something is poorly designed. One can also make the argument that the new STAFF spells aren't really spells at all and they create a potent and scalable magic item w/o any cost beyond a few points of ST. And as Henry has repeatedly illustrated, they are prone to abuse from fringe use-cases such as the dreaded silver dagger-staff.

My approach to a solution was two-fold. First, I limit access to the Wizard's Staff on Cidri (in my campaign it is a symbol of membership in the Wizard's Guild which must be earned) and second (the more important part), is that they are no longer created by spells. Rather, the ability to create and attune a Wizard's Staff (or wand, etc.) is implemented in my game via a new avenue of supernatural training that characters may unlock thru the expenditure of XP.

My main goals were to...
1) make non-staff wielding wizards a viable option,
2) emphasize the wizard's staff (or wand) as a tool, not a weapon, and
3) remove the XP-for-Mana wizard tax.

So I designed a character option called 'Powers' (which is a new set of XP-based character option that I've posted about previously) as a separate advancement track. STAFF spells were replaced by powers from the Magister Portfolio which includes new abilities such as the following...

Arcane Boost
The wizard imbues the foci item with a portion of their arcane power which can be used to enhance any spells cast while the wizard holds the device. The potency of spells cast thru the foci are increased, improving their chance of success or making them more effective over distances. This is reflected by a +1 DX modifier for each tier the wizard has achieved in the Magister portfolio.

Spellbinder
For each tier the wizard has unlocked, they can store one 'active' spell in their Arcane Foci. This is accomplished by the wizard expending the required ST to cast the spell into the item. The spell is then held as potential magical energy that can be released at the wizard's choosing as a free action (meaning that they can still cast a regular spell in the same turn). There is no limit to how long the spell(s) can reside within the item.

But the Magister powers are not the only path available to wizards. There are also portfolios for other arcane specializations such as Channeling, Necromancy, Familiars, etc.
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Old 12-13-2020, 04:41 PM   #6
amenditman
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Florida Peninsula, Earth, Sol Sytem
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

One solution I like, after discussing it at length with Skarg, is to break up the special abilities of the various Staff level spells. The staff is just as powerful, but instead of using 5 IQ points/XP levels, it now costs the wizard 8 IQ points/XP levels. The wizard may mix and match these in any way, the prerequisites are a little different for some of them.

IQ 8 Staff Same as published
IQ 11 Mana Stat for Staff
IQ 11 Immunity to Drop/Break Weapons for Staff
IQ 13 Occult Strike Improvement 1 for Staff - adds 2 hex and any facing
IQ 13 Occult Strike Improvement 2 for Staff - adds bypasses armor/natural defenses.
IQ 15 Occult Strike is a free action as published
IQ 17 Double Mana stat for Staff
IQ 17 Increased Occult Zap dmg to 1d+2
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Old 12-17-2020, 04:15 AM   #7
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

My short answer is, I dump all the Staff spells except the basic one from Wizard. And there is no occult zap.

Tiered "Wizardry" talents may be learned that include (among a few other things) the skill to concentrate Mana in the owner's Staff, the higher the skill the higher the Mana limit. Also, the Staff "recovers" used Mana at the same rate the wizard recovers fatigue, but instead of (not simultaneous with) the wizard recovering fatigue. After 15 minutes rest the wizard decides where to put the 1 point recovered, back in the Staff (if any was used from there) or keep that point for himself or herself.

I went into much more detail about this in some of the old threads.
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Old 12-17-2020, 10:37 PM   #8
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
My short answer is, I dump all the Staff spells except the basic one from Wizard. And there is no occult zap.

Tiered "Wizardry" talents may be learned that include (among a few other things) the skill to concentrate Mana in the owner's Staff, the higher the skill the higher the Mana limit. Also, the Staff "recovers" used Mana at the same rate the wizard recovers fatigue, but instead of (not simultaneous with) the wizard recovering fatigue. After 15 minutes rest the wizard decides where to put the 1 point recovered, back in the Staff (if any was used from there) or keep that point for himself or herself.

I went into much more detail about this in some of the old threads.
Yes, I’m also not sold on all the new Staff Spells and think I’ll stick with the older rules and my house rule that Wizards get magic power equal to starting ST which reduces the need for Mana staffs.
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Old 12-18-2020, 03:49 AM   #9
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: LE Staff Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Yes, I’m also not sold on all the new Staff Spells and think I’ll stick with the older rules and my house rule that Wizards get magic power equal to starting ST which reduces the need for Mana staffs.
I so agree. In my long-running group going back to the 70's, we all wished the original Staff had at least a couple more tricks than it did... which just proves the old saying be careful what you wish for! I was dumbfounded by what I call overkill when I first read the new Legacy rules for Staves.

I probably shouldn't have been, but I was also surprised to even see the term Mana finally make its debut in TFT, as that's the term for spell-casting power we used for decades. Chris, I think you'd have been right at home in my old group. This isn't the first time I've noticed your house rules are nearly identical to what we came up with.

I like the idea of "Mana Staves" in principle, but not the implementation under the RAW. Instead of buying capacity with XP, I much prefer the idea that a wizard has to learn how to store Mana in a regular Staff through an advancing progression of acquired wizardry talents. It's always the same Staff, it's the wizard changing and getting better at using it. (The Wizardry talents would of course come with their own interesting features.)

The Adept (or Wizardry I) can't store any Mana in their Staff yet.

With Wizardry II, they can store Mana = ST minus 6, and as the levels go up the capacity rises to ST-4, then ST-2, then fully equal to ST, and at the highest level (Wizardry VI), they can store Mana equal to 2XST (to be close to RAW, and keep Molly happy) or ST+2 instead (to go with a more conservative maximum).

I'll be spacing my Wizardry talents out by 2 IQ each. Thus allocating/earning 1 more point to ST increases Staff Mana capacity by 1 under the above formulas. Or, by allocating/earning 2 more points to IQ instead of ST, Staff Mana capacity then increases 2. Either way, the amount that can be stored stays proportional to the figure's Attribute total.

So if a wizard earns enough XP for 1 more Attribute point, there's the temptation to put it on ST for instant gratification because 1 more point of Staff Mana storage space comes with it instantly, or they can play the long game and put the point on IQ, knowing with another point eventually earned and put on IQ again they can take a higher Wizardy talent while increasing Mana storage capacity by 2 points at once.
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