[Powers] Powers which work over interstellar ranges (mindlink, detect, warp)

Crystalline_Entity · 01-23-2021, 05:12 AM

I've got a few powers I'm trying to develop (ultimately for Sorcery), which work over interstellar ranges:

Mindlink - allowing mental communication using another spell over interstellar distances (with Mindlink extending the range)
Detect - detecting a certain rare mineral over interstellar distances
Warp - an interplanetary and interstellar teleport spell

Can I get a bit of advice from the forum-mind please?

Mindlink

Mindlink, according to B70, cannot reach more than 0.1 light-years. Is increasing this this just a matter of adding very high levels of Increased Range?

As that sounds like it'll get very expensive very quickly, needing "Increased Range (5x), +20%" just to reach Alpha Centauri and "Increased Range (500,000x), +170%" to reach the galactic centre. In comparison with removing the "no parallel worlds" limit with "World-Spanning, +100%", it feels expensive, even though a 0.1 LY initial range is a good starting point (compared for example with Telecommunication or Scanning Sense).

Detect

Can this take the Long-Range enhancement from P108? As it seems like two levels of that will remove the distance penalties completely for +100%. That... sounds a bit overpowered for science fantasy, where distance still matters, it's just measured in parsecs rather than miles.

Warp

This uses a bespoke set of range penalties, so I'm not sure whether this can use the Long-Range enhancement as Detect can. I think the canonical way of doing an interstellar teleport is to buy enough levels of Reliable to cancel out the distance penalty. So at 2.8 billion miles away, cancelling out the -14 in distance penalty to teleport to Neptune's moon Triton would require "Reliable 14, +70%", and Alpha Centauri at 5.8 trillion miles is -18 for "Reliable 18, +90%". The rest of the galaxy gets progressively more difficult. If using limitations on enhancements, what is "Reliable (Only to cancel distance penalty)" worth?

Is this the best way of modelling this?

AlexanderHowl · 01-23-2021, 10:01 AM

In the case of Warp, the maximum level of Reliable is +10. If you want to have a good chance of teleporting interstellar distances, first take IQ 12 [40], Will 20 [40], Teleportation Talent 4 [20], and Warp (Based on Will, +20%; Blind, +50%; Reliable, +10, +50%; Teleportation, -10%) [210], for 310 CP. Afterwards, spend 8 hours concentrating (giving a +10 to jump) and spend 10 FP (giving a +5 to jump blind/+10 for a normal jump), giving you an effective skill of 34 for a blind jump or an effective skill of 44 for a normal jump. You can do anywhere within 16.9 light-years as a blind jump on a '16' then. If you are familiar with your target though, you could jump anywhere in the observable universe.

Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 · 01-24-2021, 02:51 AM

GURPS Lensman (3rd edition) has Modifiers for psionic powers to work at interstellar or greater distances. Could those be of use?

Crystalline_Entity · 01-24-2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In the case of Warp, the maximum level of Reliable is +10. If you want to have a good chance of teleporting interstellar distances, first take IQ 12 [40], Will 20 [40], Teleportation Talent 4 [20], and Warp (Based on Will, +20%; Blind, +50%; Reliable, +10, +50%; Teleportation, -10%) [210], for 310 CP. Afterwards, spend 8 hours concentrating (giving a +10 to jump) and spend 10 FP (giving a +5 to jump blind/+10 for a normal jump), giving you an effective skill of 34 for a blind jump or an effective skill of 44 for a normal jump. You can do anywhere within 16.9 light-years as a blind jump on a '16' then. If you are familiar with your target though, you could jump anywhere in the observable universe.

Yeah, fair point, Reliable is limited to 10 by the rules. I think a Rules Exemption Perk would work here, in the same way you can use one to bypass limits on Talent. I'd really wanted a spell which didn't require 8 hours of concentration - that's a long time to go uninterrupted!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2

GURPS Lensman (3rd edition) has Modifiers for psionic powers to work at interstellar or greater distances. Could those be of use?

That's not a book I have I'm afraid, and I can't see in on Warehouse 23 - I assume it's a licensed property of some kind. But that's for the tip, I'll have a look on Amazon etc.

Michael Thayne · 01-24-2021, 12:19 PM

The Long-Range enhancement is the key to making super long-range abilities not based on Warp (or Mindlink, I guess). Works not just on Detect but Mind Control, Mind Probe, Mind Reading, Telesend, anything enhanced with Malediction, etc.

Fred Brackin · 01-24-2021, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity

Yeah, fair point, Reliable is limited to 10 by the rules. I think a Rules Exemption Perk would work here, in the same way you can use one to bypass limits on Talent..

A +50% Cosmic Enhancement might be more on target for chenging the way Warp basically works.

Gurps:Lensman was indeed a 3e licensed work based on the Lensman series by E.E. "Doc" Smith. Used copies will probably be expensive and my first printing has the spine starting to fail froma ge and use.

It's also heavily invested in the 3e Psionics system and its' modifiers are pretty arbitary as well as being not really 4e ready. You can probably do without it

Plane · 01-26-2021, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity

Detect

Can this take the Long-Range enhancement from P108? As it seems like two levels of that will remove the distance penalties completely for +100%. That... sounds a bit overpowered for science fantasy, where distance still matters, it's just measured in parsecs rather than miles.

Only if we assume it doesn't have a hardcap maximum range and only has a soft-capped range.

Start of Basic's enhancement section has rule stating max range is 100 yards unless otherwise stated, so unless something says "unlimited range" or "as far as you can successfully roll" or similar, that could be grounds to apply that?

If we assume the max range is 100 yards and you need Extended Range to improve that, it's not so bad.

You pretty much do need to have a max range to understand how to price stuff like Line-of-Sight.

In fairness I would apply this to Information Spells too.

transmetahuman · 09-01-2021, 01:27 AM

GURPS Powers: The Weird has an inexpensive modifier that lets Warp completely ignore distance, as long as the Warper is very familiar with/knowledgeable about the destination.

A Detect with double Long Range doesn't need to have *infinite* range or no range modifier at all. Just pay for that but limit it by fiat to -1 per parsec, or maybe use the speed/distance table but replace feet with light years. Whatever you'd like.

Pursuivant · 09-01-2021, 02:09 AM

It's not RAW, but one way to solve the problem of psi powers not working at interstellar ranges is to treat range in vacuum as a tiny fraction of range in a planetary atmosphere.

For example, read AU or Parsecs of distance in vacuum as "miles" or "tens of miles" in air.

As long as it's appropriate to the campaign and everyone benefits from the longer distances equally it's a useful house rule.

If you do want to stick with RAW, the Cosmic modifier is a good starting point for powers which can reach across a solar system or galaxy.

01-23-2021, 05:12 AM	#1
Crystalline_Entity Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: England	[Powers] Powers which work over interstellar ranges (mindlink, detect, warp) I've got a few powers I'm trying to develop (ultimately for Sorcery), which work over interstellar ranges: Mindlink - allowing mental communication using another spell over interstellar distances (with Mindlink extending the range) Detect - detecting a certain rare mineral over interstellar distances Warp - an interplanetary and interstellar teleport spell Can I get a bit of advice from the forum-mind please? Mindlink Mindlink, according to B70, cannot reach more than 0.1 light-years. Is increasing this this just a matter of adding very high levels of Increased Range? As that sounds like it'll get very expensive very quickly, needing "Increased Range (5x), +20%" just to reach Alpha Centauri and "Increased Range (500,000x), +170%" to reach the galactic centre. In comparison with removing the "no parallel worlds" limit with "World-Spanning, +100%", it feels expensive, even though a 0.1 LY initial range is a good starting point (compared for example with Telecommunication or Scanning Sense). Detect Can this take the Long-Range enhancement from P108? As it seems like two levels of that will remove the distance penalties completely for +100%. That... sounds a bit overpowered for science fantasy, where distance still matters, it's just measured in parsecs rather than miles. Warp This uses a bespoke set of range penalties, so I'm not sure whether this can use the Long-Range enhancement as Detect can. I think the canonical way of doing an interstellar teleport is to buy enough levels of Reliable to cancel out the distance penalty. So at 2.8 billion miles away, cancelling out the -14 in distance penalty to teleport to Neptune's moon Triton would require "Reliable 14, +70%", and Alpha Centauri at 5.8 trillion miles is -18 for "Reliable 18, +90%". The rest of the galaxy gets progressively more difficult. If using limitations on enhancements, what is "Reliable (Only to cancel distance penalty)" worth? Is this the best way of modelling this?

01-23-2021, 10:01 AM	#2
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: [Powers] Powers which work over interstellar ranges (mindlink, detect, warp) In the case of Warp, the maximum level of Reliable is +10. If you want to have a good chance of teleporting interstellar distances, first take IQ 12 [40], Will 20 [40], Teleportation Talent 4 [20], and Warp (Based on Will, +20%; Blind, +50%; Reliable, +10, +50%; Teleportation, -10%) [210], for 310 CP. Afterwards, spend 8 hours concentrating (giving a +10 to jump) and spend 10 FP (giving a +5 to jump blind/+10 for a normal jump), giving you an effective skill of 34 for a blind jump or an effective skill of 44 for a normal jump. You can do anywhere within 16.9 light-years as a blind jump on a '16' then. If you are familiar with your target though, you could jump anywhere in the observable universe.

01-24-2021, 02:51 AM	#3
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The deep dark haunted woods	Re: [Powers] Powers which work over interstellar ranges (mindlink, detect, warp) *GURPS Lensman* (3rd edition) has Modifiers for psionic powers to work at interstellar or greater distances. Could those be of use? __________________ "When you talk about damage radius, even atomic weapons pale before that of an unfettered idiot in a position of power." - Sam Starfall from the webcomic Freefall

01-24-2021, 12:19 PM	#5
Michael Thayne Join Date: May 2010	Re: [Powers] Powers which work over interstellar ranges (mindlink, detect, warp) The Long-Range enhancement is the key to making super long-range abilities not based on Warp (or Mindlink, I guess). Works not just on Detect but Mind Control, Mind Probe, Mind Reading, Telesend, anything enhanced with Malediction, etc.

09-01-2021, 01:27 AM	#8
transmetahuman Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA, USA	Re: [Powers] Powers which work over interstellar ranges (mindlink, detect, warp) GURPS Powers: The Weird has an inexpensive modifier that lets Warp completely ignore distance, as long as the Warper is very familiar with/knowledgeable about the destination. A Detect with double Long Range doesn't need to have infinite range or no range modifier at all. Just pay for that but limit it by fiat to -1 per parsec, or maybe use the speed/distance table but replace feet with light years. Whatever you'd like.

09-01-2021, 02:09 AM	#9
Pursuivant Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: [Powers] Powers which work over interstellar ranges (mindlink, detect, warp) It's not RAW, but one way to solve the problem of psi powers not working at interstellar ranges is to treat range in vacuum as a tiny fraction of range in a planetary atmosphere. For example, read AU or Parsecs of distance in vacuum as "miles" or "tens of miles" in air. As long as it's appropriate to the campaign and everyone benefits from the longer distances equally it's a useful house rule. If you do want to stick with RAW, the Cosmic modifier is a good starting point for powers which can reach across a solar system or galaxy.