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Old 10-24-2007, 08:21 AM   #1
Oggsmash
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default dual attack + Deceptive attack

Is this legal? It seems with the -1 from a dual attack and the accumulation of parry modifiers you could have a nigh un-parryable attack by using deceptive attack in conjunction with a dual attack (assuming the target just parries).

I have searched the forums and books. I have only found one blurb regarding extra attack used with dual that said something along the lines of "all other attacks after the dual attack must be simple attacks".

Also is it possible to have a combination dual attack? Where you use targeted attack (as per MA) at two targets on one defender? Or is Dual simply meant to be two general torso shots?

Thanks for any clarity on these.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:44 AM   #2
KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brescia, Italy
Default Re: dual attack + Deceptive attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oggsmash
Is this legal? It seems with the -1 from a dual attack and the accumulation of parry modifiers you could have a nigh un-parryable attack by using deceptive attack in conjunction with a dual attack (assuming the target just parries).
The attacker would be at -4 for the DWA + at least -2 for the FA. That's a minimum penalty of -6, making it hard to do.
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:26 AM   #3
Kromm
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Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: dual attack + Deceptive attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oggsmash

Is this legal?
Generally, you are free to combine combat options such as Deceptive Attack, striking from a Defensive Grip, Dual-Weapon Attack, targeting hit locations, Rapid Strike, striking from a Reversed Grip, Telegraphic Attack, making a Tip Slash, etc., unless the options that you wish to stack up are explicitly described as being incompatible. For instance, Dual-Weapon Attack and Rapid Strike are mutually exclusive, Deceptive Attack and Telegraphic Attack are opposites, and of course Defensive Grip and Reversed Grip are distinct. But nothing says you can't do a Dual-Weapon Attack and invoke the Deceptive Attack option for one or both halves of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oggsmash

It seems with the -1 from a dual attack and the accumulation of parry modifiers you could have a nigh un-parryable attack by using deceptive attack in conjunction with a dual attack (assuming the target just parries).
In fact, it doesn't matter which defense he uses, because the penalties from Deceptive Attack and Dual-Weapon Attack are general, and not specific to parries. But realize two things:

1. You only get out what you put in. With the -4 for DWA and another -2, say, for a Deceptive Attack, you're at -6 to hit. Unless you're adept with off-hand weapons, one strike has an extra -4, for a net -10, so your average penalty is -8. Meanwhile, your foe defends at -2 (-1 for the DWA, another -1 for the Deceptive Attack), which is like defending at -4 to skill. So you've just cut your own skill down six and 10 notches -- eight levels on average -- to bump your foe's skill down by four. This isn't exactly a munchkin powerplay.

You could buy off the -4 for DWA for 5 points and get the OHWT perk for another point, and make two Deceptive Attacks at -2 to skill and -2 on your foe's defenses, but then you've spent six more points on special tricks. Your foe, given those six points, could get Shield at DX+1 [2], buy Dual-Weapon Defense for both his weapon [2] and shield [2], and negate your DWA defense penalty with his DWD whilst getting shield DB larger than your Deceptive Attack defense penalty; frankly, this is why two weapons generally lose out to weapon-and-shield.

2. Your foe can stack up defense bonuses, too. He can get bonuses for some combination of Cross Parry, Defensive Attack or All-Out Defense, Defensive Grip, Feverish Defense, retreating, and a shield -- possibly many or most of these at once! He can also limit your ability to take your tricky shot by using a defensive feint. Thus, there's an arms race between effects that improve defenses and those that erode them. It isn't one-sided by any means . . . but if it favors anyone, it's nominally the defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oggsmash

Also is it possible to have a combination dual attack? Where you use targeted attack (as per MA) at two targets on one defender? Or is Dual simply meant to be two general torso shots?
There are specific rules for Combinations involving two weapons. See "Two-Handed Combinations" near the end of Combinations (p. 80).
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:49 PM   #4
Oggsmash
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: dual attack + Deceptive attack

Thanks for the responses, I was shortchanging the points in my mind regarding a defender who spent as much on his defense as a Dual weapon guy does to get good (the 6 points for no neg mod and the perk).

Putting it in these point terms makes alot more sense for me. It seemed for a moment a dual weapon blitzer who buys off the negative mods would be hard to stop. I never thought to buy up defenses against him.

Thanks, cleared it right up for me. I missed the two weapon thing on pg 80, appreciate the point-out.
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