Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-23-2018, 01:13 PM   #31
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragondog View Post
If one faction can craft TL4 muscle powered melee weapons and another faction can craft TL7 muscle powered melee weapons. Does that difference even matter (beyond the automatic Fine quality for the latter faction)? And if it does, what difference does it make? Such as increased damage, lowered weight, different material composition, etc.
A TL 7 melee weapon doesn't do more damage than a fine quality TL 4 weapon. It's just that they're all fine quality at a minimum. The armor will be a bigger game changer than the weapons.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 01:34 PM   #32
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
You've got powered automatic hammers to help with the forging, even if the blanks are guided by human hands, so they don't get tired or sloppy.
Not even accounting for the rest of the TL7 mass industrialization (since with a lower population base this isn't having as great an effect) this one thing can double (or even triple?) a smith's output.


I know a guy who makes knives and swords (and other blacksmithery stuff) and I've helped out occasionally (trying to pick up some knife making) and he likes to do it both the new way and the old way. Just to "keep his hand in it" as he says. It's almost ten to twenty times faster banging out blanks with the trip hammer (accounting for the increased workload capacity due to not tiring out as quickly) than doing them by hand.

One Dwemer* apprentice smith using a triphammer could keep 10 or more weapon smiths fed with blanks for crafting, thus easily doubling their output capacity.



* I'm making a setting assumption... ;)
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 03:07 PM   #33
Culture20
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Powered hammers existed with TL4. Trip hammers go back to 40BC or 12th century AD depending on whether you’re talking about China or Europe. But they would have been reserved for bigger things like anchors and anchor chains.
Culture20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 05:02 PM   #34
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Oh, I'm aware that the long swords we normally associate with TL3 go way back. I'm taking about swords with the profile of a rapier or cavalry saber. None of the weapons in your image are quite so narrow as that.
Rapiers are just as wide as the La Tene swords. You are probably thinking of smallwords. In any case, it is more fashion related than technology related. The mechanical properties of the steel in some La Tene swords is no different to the steel in your more recent swords.

The quality of the ore is what makes these swords so good. La Tene steel came from the same mines as Roman Noricum steel, which came from the same mines as medieval Carinthian steel, which came from the same mines as modern Ravne steel. The main site is still called Erzberg ("ore mountain") today. Low phosphorus and high manganese - ideal for swords.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.

Last edited by DanHoward; 07-23-2018 at 05:35 PM.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 05:11 PM   #35
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
Powered hammers existed with TL4. Trip hammers go back to 40BC or 12th century AD depending on whether you’re talking about China or Europe. But they would have been reserved for bigger things like anchors and anchor chains.
Yes, but they are nowhere near as efficient, fast, precise, or compact as modern power hammers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR3cRfz9EZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XSCvCfLiWs

The second one is edifying. From start to finish in less than 2 minutes.

Most smiths had apprentices to help hammer the metal. In Roman times 2-3 were common. The smith would tap where he needed it hit and the apprentices would hammer away. This would reduce production time by perhaps half to a third compared to doing it alone.

Ancient power hammers would reduce production times to perhaps a fifth - more for very large items. Keep in mind that these machines are the size of a large building.

Modern power hammers would reduce production times to a tenth or even a twentieth and can easily fit in a regular workshop.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.

Last edited by DanHoward; 07-23-2018 at 05:41 PM.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:05 PM   #36
Culture20
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Strikers are useful for larger items where a lot of metal needs to be moved, like seriously upsetting some stock, but anything fiddly like a sword blade may not be the best use of the extra muscle. I could see strikers being useful for larger bearded axes or maces.
For completion, here’s a striker video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mwy2_09M3Bw
Culture20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:12 PM   #37
DocRailgun
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Though presumably this is TL 8 and not 7, there is a TV show called "Forged In Fire" where four smiths compete to make a useable knife of considerable size in three hours. It looks like they mostly can do this with propane burners and hammering machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragondog View Post
My original question only assumed that the advanced faction could produce TL7 melee weapons at the same rate the other faction produced TL4 melee weapons.
DocRailgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:34 PM   #38
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
Strikers are useful for larger items where a lot of metal needs to be moved, like seriously upsetting some stock, but anything fiddly like a sword blade may not be the best use of the extra muscle.
Right... useless for 'fiddly' work... (note this is a "Forged in Fire" style youtube video)



(And seriously, I could go looking for those old Japanese swordsmiths I love watching with their team of strikers...)
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 11:09 PM   #39
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
TL7 crossbows too. Fiberglass is far superior to both wood and steel for making crossbows.
It's not necessarily superior to really good modern steels, but that's neither here nor there compared to the improvement compound bow technology makes to both bows and crossbows, not to mention TL7 optics, aluminium and glass fibre arrow/bolt shafts (I think carbon fibre is probably TL8), etc. Arguably these are why TL7+ arrows, bolts, and conventional bows and crossbows are fine for the cost of cheap, of course.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 11:23 PM   #40
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: TL4 vs. TL7 melee weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
Strikers are useful for larger items where a lot of metal needs to be moved, like seriously upsetting some stock, but anything fiddly like a sword blade may not be the best use of the extra muscle. I could see strikers being useful for larger bearded axes or maces.
Note that crescent spanners are drop-forged. I assume that the gearing is drilled and tapped, but the main body is certainly drop-forged, and that's a reasonably precise bit of metal-forming, given it includes the company's name on the handle, etc.

I expect that you could drop-forge swords and they'd be fine as long as they were heat-treated properly, which is something TL7 factories will have no problem with, given heat-treating machine tools is standard. It wouldn't surprise me if the choke-point in mass-producing 'good' and 'fine' swords at TL7 is making and mounting the grips, though I'm sure if there was continuing demand for thousands of swords a month that would be automated effectively.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.