On the Edge and rolling every turn

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Don't forget that a Berserker goes berserk also when allies suffer a major wound, and if they have Bad Temper that triggers too with no Berserk check (this has changed for the better in DFRPG).

Characters says "loved ones" not allies, and both it and Adventurers say you go berserk when you fail a self-control roll for Bad Temper. The difference is that DFRPG doesn't include 'loved ones being harmed', presumably because it's not something that's likely to come up at all often in DFRPG given the lack of Dependents as disadvantages.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Characters says "loved ones" not allies, and both it and Adventurers say you go berserk when you fail a self-control roll for Bad Temper.

Adventurers doesn't say that, actually.

Originally Posted by Dungeon Fantasy RPG: Adventurers p57

Make a self-control roll whenever you suffer injury over HP/4 in the space of one second or fail a self-control roll for Bad Temper. Failure means you go berserk.

Whereas in GURPS it says

Originally Posted by "GURPS Basic Set p123

You go berserk automatically if you fail a self-control roll for Bad Temper!

DFRPG asks for two rolls, one for Bad Temper, and then a second for Berserk. You have to fail both to Berserk due to a Bad Temper trigger. So you can have a character with Bad Temper 6- and Berserk 15- who can be spectacularly crabby without being homicidal all the time.

GURPS asks for one roll, for a Bad Temper trigger. Failure causes you to go berserk regardless of your Berserk SC. In GURPS, if you have Bad Temper 6- and Berserk 15-, you don't actually act grumpy and crabby, you go straight to homicidal rampage.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Bruno

DFRPG asks for two rolls, one for Bad Temper, and then a second for Berserk. You have to fail both to Berserk due to a Bad Temper trigger. So you can have a character with Bad Temper 6- and Berserk 15- who can be spectacularly crabby without being homicidal all the time.

So it does. I only read the thing about half a dozen times before posting looking for the differences, and managed to not see it. :(

[Bruno]

The funny thing is so many people had the opposite problem with Berserk years ago: couldn't see the (very explicit) sentence saying "do not pass go, do not collect 200$, go berserk".

I argued for the DFRPG version for a long time, I'm glad to see it. I also like the change that makes it clear about what to do when your berserker looses their footing without crippling a leg.

There's a knock on effect of the GURPS wording that's a potential interpretation minefield: A number of disads, most prominently Loner, have wording like "If you fail, you lash out at that person just as if you had Bad Temper (p. 124)."

To me, that strongly suggests that Berserk suffers a trigger here, too, because you're being treated as having Bad Temper, and when you have Bad Temper triggered, Berserk is triggered.

DFRPG has the same clause, but since Berserk has been toned down to get a SC roll in this case, it's more reasonable.

To bring this back to the original topic (somewhat) - Berserk is one of those disadvantages with SC where I would require always trying a SC roll - it actually requires a Will roll and a Concentrate to go berserk if you can't get a SC roll, or don't fail a SC roll, and for good reason.

It also highlights why I'm not entirely comfortable with the interpretation that you should act as if you have the full manifestation of the disad all the time without SC to avoid being penalized CP for bad roleplaying. You get more points based on the cost of the entire disad for having a lower SC rating. The guy with On the Edge 15- (or whatever) could represent someone who's basically On the Edge all the time except when his motivations are conflicting, or could represent someone who has somewhat thrill seeking or self-destructive tendencies, but they're "relatively" under control.

Both these people have OtE 15- for the same point cost, because that's the only way to represent #2, but #2 bleeds CP for "bad roleplaying".

[AlexanderHowl]

I agree, this is why we have self-control rolls. No one ever says that someone with Phobia should automatically make a fright check when exposed to the cause of their Phobia. Now, a character with Berserk avoiding circumstances that would cause a self-control roll, that is good RP. Think of Bruce Banner in The Incredible Hulk TV series, who attempts to solve his problems with diplomacy and non-violence because he goes Berserk and transforms everytime he is hurt.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Bruno

To bring this back to the original topic (somewhat) - Berserk is one of those disadvantages with SC where I would require always trying a SC roll - it actually requires a Will roll and a Concentrate to go berserk if you can't get a SC roll, or don't fail a SC roll, and for good reason.

If you always want to flip out in every battle (or even just before battle so you roll in Berserked), Battle Rage (+50%) is your Huckleberry.