Summoning allies with Ritual Path Magic

[Jefepato]

In Thaumatology: RPM, we've got an example of a Lesser Create Spirit effect (Hidden Housekeeper, page 44), and it's stated (page 12) that you'd need a Greater Create Spirit to get something that isn't "weak and very limited." Makes sense.

So how do you do that? I don't see any price guidelines for this -- the only idea I've got is to treat this like adding the Ally advantage.

Let's say a 400-point witch wants to summon an earth elemental. 200 points sounds good enough, so that's Ally (earth elemental, built on 50%, all the time; Minion, +50%) [12]. Do you need to add Summonable as well, or is that unnecessary (since you're merely summoning this thing once by casting the spell, rather than giving yourself the ability to summon it in general)?

Does this work? Is there a better way to do this?

Summon Earth Elemental
Spell Effects: Greater Control Spirit + Greater Create Spirit
Inherent Modifiers: None
Greater Effects: 2 (x5)

Typical Casting: Greater Control Spirit (5) + Greater Create Spirit (6) + Altered Trait, Ally (50%, all the time, Minion +50%) (12) + Duration, 1 hour (+3), 120 energy (24x5)

...For that matter, is Greater Control Spirit necessary? Or would Lesser have been good enough? (I'm not sure if the Control Spirit in Hidden Housekeeper is Lesser because the spirit is weak, or Lesser because "control this spirit I just created" is a lesser effect in general.)

[Anaraxes]

Jefepato? You found out last September how this works:

Ghostdancer, Ghostdancer, Ghostdancer!

[N.H.Alicia]

I'm fairly certain that summoning is covered by the Path of Crossroads, unless you're using a variant.

[Jefepato]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Jefepato? You found out last September how this works:

Ghostdancer, Ghostdancer, Ghostdancer!

Oh, right. RPM! RPM! RPM!

Originally Posted by N.H.Alicia

I'm fairly certain that summoning is covered by the Path of Crossroads, unless you're using a variant.

Opening a gate for an existing entity to come to you is Crossroads, sure. It probably wouldn't require any mucking around with added advantages either. The entity is out there and you just need to open it a path, regardless of its point value.

"Conjuring" is probably a more apt term than "summoning" for what I'm suggesting, but in my defense page 12 actually says "Use Lesser Create Spirit to summon..." etc.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Jefepato? You found out last September how this works:

Ghostdancer, Ghostdancer, Ghostdancer!

Originally Posted by Jefepato

Oh, right. RPM! RPM! RPM!

Come on, guys - I'm hard at work writing more stuff and you keep summoning me to the forum demiplane. (I've actually been taking a break from here and other places because I've got a lot going on in my personal life at the moment, but this one's low hanging fruit so I decided to answer.)

Originally Posted by Jefepato

In Thaumatology: RPM, we've got an example of a Lesser Create Spirit effect (Hidden Housekeeper, page 44), and it's stated (page 12) that you'd need a Greater Create Spirit to get something that isn't "weak and very limited." Makes sense.

So how do you do that? I don't see any price guidelines for this -- the only idea I've got is to treat this like adding the Ally advantage.

Let's say a 400-point witch wants to summon an earth elemental. 200 points sounds good enough, so that's Ally (earth elemental, built on 50%, all the time; Minion, +50%) [12]. Do you need to add Summonable as well, or is that unnecessary (since you're merely summoning this thing once by casting the spell, rather than giving yourself the ability to summon it in general)?

Does this work? Is there a better way to do this?

Summon Earth Elemental
Spell Effects: Greater Control Spirit + Greater Create Spirit
Inherent Modifiers: None
Greater Effects: 2 (x5)

Typical Casting: Greater Control Spirit (5) + Greater Create Spirit (6) + Altered Trait, Ally (50%, all the time, Minion +50%) (12) + Duration, 1 hour (+3), 120 energy (24x5)

...For that matter, is Greater Control Spirit necessary? Or would Lesser have been good enough? (I'm not sure if the Control Spirit in Hidden Housekeeper is Lesser because the spirit is weak, or Lesser because "control this spirit I just created" is a lesser effect in general.)

I never liked how you bought an ally as an altered trait like that even the the costs were more or less correct. It just never sat well with me. It's why I created the Summoned modifier on my blog and used it in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic.

Originally Posted by N.H.Alicia

I'm fairly certain that summoning is covered by the Path of Crossroads, unless you're using a variant.

Originally Posted by Jefepato

Opening a gate for an existing entity to come to you is Crossroads, sure. It probably wouldn't require any mucking around with added advantages either. The entity is out there and you just need to open it a path, regardless of its point value.

"Conjuring" is probably a more apt term than "summoning" for what I'm suggesting, but in my defense page 12 actually says "Use Lesser Create Spirit to summon..." etc.

While effectively a feature - it's an important one. Creating a minion to do your bidding doesn't need Path of Crossroads, otherwise you do.

[Jefepato]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Come on, guys - I'm hard at work writing more stuff and you keep summoning me to the forum demiplane. (I've actually been taking a break from here and other places because I've got a lot going on in my personal life at the moment, but this one's low hanging fruit so I decided to answer.)

Thanks. I really appreciate the help.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I never liked how you bought an ally as an altered trait like that even the the costs were more or less correct. It just never sat well with me. It's why I created the Summoned modifier on my blog and used it in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic.

Fair enough.

But, you don't require a Control effect to make conjured minions actually obey the caster? Your Summon Skeleton and Summon Skeleton Horde don't have it, whereas Bag of Bones and Hidden Housekeeper in Thaumatology: RPM both do have one.

(...Also, why is Reaper Bolt Create Undead instead of Destroy Body?)

[munin]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

…I never liked how you bought an ally as an altered trait like that even the the costs were more or less correct. It just never sat well with me. It's why I created the Summoned modifier on my blog …

What don't you like about it? If it's going to use the exact same costs as Altered Trait, Allies then why not just use the existing mechanic which already has a history of modifiers/decisions/etc.? (for example, adding Minion, Unwilling, etc.)