[Vehicles] So How Do Folding Wings Work?

[scc]

So I'm building a spacefighter with Vehicles and I'm using Vehicles because fiddly bits. So one thing I want to do is give it folding wings. Now the rules for this are on page 21, but they leave a bit to be desired, there's a formula for weight and how to calculate cost based upon that, but nothing else.

For starters from the way the rules are worded it sounds as if the wings have no volume or surface area, nor can you put anything in the wings or armor them, because that formula is for the weight of the wings, not any sort of mechanism that lets them fold, which is weird.

Next there's volume, assuming that the weight is actually for the capability for the wings to fold instead of the wings themselves is the volume (So it's hinges and hydraulics) is the lack of volume, I'm assuming that this is the standard 50 lbs. per CF?

Lastly is the location, again unmentioned. Wings presumably, but maybe the body?

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by scc

So I'm building a spacefighter with Vehicles and I'm using Vehicles because fiddly bits. So one thing I want to do is give it folding wings. Now the rules for this are on page 21, but they leave a bit to be desired, there's a formula for weight and how to calculate cost based upon that, but nothing else.

For starters from the way the rules are worded it sounds as if the wings have no volume or surface area, nor can you put anything in the wings or armor them, because that formula is for the weight of the wings, not any sort of mechanism that lets them fold, which is weird.

Next there's volume, assuming that the weight is actually for the capability for the wings to fold instead of the wings themselves is the volume (So it's hinges and hydraulics) is the lack of volume, I'm assuming that this is the standard 50 lbs. per CF?

Lastly is the location, again unmentioned. Wings presumably, but maybe the body?

As far as I can tell, they have no extra volume, just weight and cost. They weigh 0.05 x the wings' area / total structural area x structure weight, and $25 per pound of the added weight.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by scc

For starters from the way the rules are worded it sounds as if the wings have no volume or surface area, nor can you put anything in the wings or armor them, because that formula is for the weight of the wings, not any sort of mechanism that lets them fold, which is weird.

I think that you're reading too much into it.

The wings clearly retain their volume and surface area when folded, they just fold in a way that takes advantage of otherwise "wasted space" around the vehicle.

I see nothing in the rules which prevents mounting guns or hardpoints on or in a folding wing. Exact location on the wing is just a cosmetic effect that counts for nothing using the GURPS Vehicles mechanics.

Historically, aircraft with folding wings had most of their ordinance hardpoints inboard from the folding portion of the wings, but guns and hardpoints for rockets could be mounted on or in the folding portions.

Originally Posted by scc

Next there's volume, assuming that the weight is actually for the capability for the wings to fold instead of the wings themselves is the volume (So it's hinges and hydraulics) is the lack of volume, I'm assuming that this is the standard 50 lbs. per CF?

Figure out the weight & and surface area normally and then add the weight of the folding mechanism using the formula listed above.

You are right that the extra weight takes the form of "hinges & hydraulics" but the actual volume occupied by those subsystems is small enough that they don't count towards total volume the wing can hold. The hinges occupy spaces normally occupied by the wing's ribs, while the hydraulic lines and pumps might be nested against a convenient spar.

For example, this is a late model Supermarine Seafire. Notice how the wings fold upwards to save space. Other carrier aircraft had wings which swiveled 90 degrees and then folded backwards against the rear fuselage.

The only design problem is if you're trying to create a vehicle with telescoping wings. Realistically, you'd have massive structural problems, but for an ultratech vehicle that limitation can be handwaved away.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Historically, aircraft with folding wings had most of their ordinance hardpoints inboard from the folding portion of the wings, but guns and hardpoints for rockets could be mounted on or in the folding portions.

As an example, the AD Skyraider (later the A-1 Skyraider) had a 20mm cannon and six hardpoints rated for 500 pounds individually or 2500 pounds collectively on the folding portion of each wing.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by scc

So I'm building a spacefighter with Vehicles and I'm using Vehicles because fiddly bits. So one thing I want to do is give it folding wings. Now the rules for this are on page 21, but they leave a bit to be desired, there's a formula for weight and how to calculate cost based upon that, but nothing else.

As long as you're dealing with wings that fold to reduce storage space this is accurate. It's a minor feature.

If you've conflated those folding wings with _swing_ wings that move forward or backward in flight as found on the F-14 that's a much bigger deal and requires multiple performance profiles.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If you've conflated those folding wings with _swing_ wings that move forward or backward in flight as found on the F-14 that's a much bigger deal and requires multiple performance profiles.

Those are found in GURPS 3E Vehicles as well.