GURPS Thaumatology: Sorcery

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Langy

The game mechanical effects can still do that - the price should just be based upon 4 points or so. A flat +1 to a single skill can also be treated as 2 points (for some unknown reason) - this is used in some racial templates. You could likewise make it a Talent for 5 points, but if you did that I'd make it apply to more than one skill in some way.

This seems like the kind of thing that a limited DX might work for - or even a racial skill bonus (though that may be too cheap). Keep in mind that the Smooth Talent Cost is a mere +1 per skill...

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Ah, but I'm not making allies. I'm making undead and golems that may not stay under my command. They may be sold, given away, or simply left to their own devices. Building these creatures as allies would no more work than building sorcery enchanted gear as gadgets.

If I was just making allies, that would be (un)dead easy.

According to every source published so far, you use Allies for summoning/creating things. Divine Favor, p. 13-14 has an actual Golem ability statted up already by our own PK: "Statistics: Ally (Golem; Built on 150%; Constantly; Divine, -10%; Minion, +50%; Summonable, Requires a body, +50%) [76]." Dungeon Fantasy 9 - Summoners, p. 15 uses Allies to summon undead - "Allies (Five servitor skeletons or zombies, p. 26; Built on 10%; 15 or less; Minion, +0%; PM, -10%) [6], (10 servitors) [7], or (20 servitors) [9]" -, and presumably those allies are still subject to Command Zombie. GURPS Zombies lists Zombie Conjuring on p. 50, which is also based on Allies: "Allies (Zombie; Up to 25% of summoner’s points; 15 or less; Conjured, +100%; Minion, +50%) [8]."

I suppose you could do some cludgy, nasty thing with Dominance, too, but so far, canonically, this is how it is done. You can probably treat releasing allies from your control as somewhere between Switchable a feature, since once free, they can attack you. If you want a Sorcery-version of Control Zombie, look at Mind Control (Accessibility, Zombies Only).

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

This seems like the kind of thing that a limited DX might work for - or even a racial skill bonus (though that may be too cheap). Keep in mind that the Smooth Talent Cost is a mere +1 per skill...

Weapon Talent would work out to [15], as a buff, but it'd be pretty inefficient as a weapon buff. I like the idea of a 5-point talent that boosts accuracy and some other related skills, otherwise either 2 points/skill the weapon can be used with (max 5 points) seems reasonable. I just like the idea of a Shaolin Staff giving a bonus to Acrobatics, Judo, Jumping, Karate, and Staff, though. Really comprehensive styles might get a 10-point talent instead. But that's really just a tangent.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Langy

… A flat +1 to a single skill can also be treated as 2 points (for some unknown reason) - this is used in some racial templates. …

A one-skill Talent is worth [2/level] (p. B118, B452) and, RAW, is limited to 3 levels. But a 5-point Talent may be better for weapon buffs, since many weapons can be used with more than one skill.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Kalminos

I'm slightly disappointed we're falling to imbuements for buffing and enhancing existing attacks- It's kind of hard now to figure out how to make a sword of puissance that does +1 damage or whatever else because we have to dig through imbuements. Is there even such an imbuement in that book?

No, because you don't really have to dig into Imbuements for that. Just buff Striking ST (One Attack, -60%) [2/level]. For simplicity, assume that every level of Striking ST gives +1 to swing damage and every two levels give +1 to thrust damage.

Personally, I like that better than a flat damage bonus -- since swings do more damage, you really want them getting a better bonus, otherwise it's a smaller relative bonus. But if you want a flat one, it's fairly easy to make a new meta-trait to afflict:

Damage Bonus: Striking ST 1 (One Attack, -60%) [2] + Striking ST 1 (One Attack, -60%; Thrust Only, -20%) [1]. 3 points.

(Though again, I plan to endorse the simpler "buff with Striking ST" solution as the official one.)

Edit: the same goes for accuracy. How would I enchant THAT?

Buff DX +1 with "Accessibility, Only attacks with this weapon, -80%" [4/level]. It works out the same as +1 skill but without violating the fact that Affliction can't bestow skills.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

In the vein of permanent magical creations, one thing that would be useful in a future supplement would be guidelines for making things like golems and zombies and various other types of magical creation that don't fall into the nifty enchantment rules.

I've been thinking about this, and I think the best approach might be the following -- though this is "alpha code" at the moment.

The scalability of Allies is sensible for most uses, but troublesome when you want to turn it into a spell. However, there's a precedent for turning Allies into a flat-cost advantage rather than a scalable one -- specifically, per GURPS Zombies, a character worth fewer than 100 points should be treated as 100 points for the purpose of calculating his Allies' point totals. So "Allies calculated at a power level of 100 points" is a reasonable floor, but if we also allow it to be a ceiling, then it flattens the cost of Allies completely.

Now, sure, in a high-powered game, that might seem unfair. However, clearly it's equally fair for games ranging from 0 to 200 points, which covers the majority of GURPS games -- and allowing Allies to be turned into an Alternative Ability (usually a dubious proposition at best!) means that you're really just paying 1/5 of its normal cost, which arguably suggests that this is fair up to a 1,000-point game. (It's not perfect logic, but I think it's in the ballpark of logical -- and I'd prefer to err on the side of being less generous rather than more, as Allies are damned cheap.)

That would give us a flat conversion of 20 points in the spell (a 5-point Ally, x4 for constantly available) = 100 "Ally points" (AP), or 1 EP = 5 AP. Double the ratio (1 EP = 2.5 AP) for summonable ones. Minimum 1 EP, of course, even for negative-point Allies. So creating a 300-point golem would be the equivalent of enchanting a 60-EP item, while creating a -127-point zombie would be a 1-EP enchantment.

Thoughts?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by PK

I've been thinking about this, and I think the best approach might be the following -- though this is "alpha code" at the moment.

The scalability of Allies is sensible for most uses, but troublesome when you want to turn it into a spell. However, there's a precedent for turning Allies into a flat-cost advantage rather than a scalable one -- specifically, per GURPS Zombies, a character worth fewer than 100 points should be treated as 100 points for the purpose of calculating his Allies' point totals. So "Allies calculated at a power level of 100 points" is a reasonable floor, but if we also allow it to be a ceiling, then it flattens the cost of Allies completely.

Now, sure, in a high-powered game, that might seem unfair. However, clearly it's equally fair for games ranging from 0 to 200 points, which covers the majority of GURPS games -- and allowing Allies to be turned into an Alternative Ability (usually a dubious proposition at best!) means that you're really just paying 1/5 of its normal cost, which arguably suggests that this is fair up to a 1,000-point game. (It's not perfect logic, but I think it's in the ballpark of logical -- and I'd prefer to err on the side of being less generous rather than more, as Allies are damned cheap.)

That would give us a flat conversion of 20 points in the spell (a 5-point Ally, x4 for constantly available) = 100 "Ally points" (AP), or 1 EP = 5 AP. Double the ratio (1 EP = 2.5 AP) for summonable ones. Minimum 1 EP, of course, even for negative-point Allies. So creating a 300-point golem would be the equivalent of enchanting a 60-EP item, while creating a -127-point zombie would be a 1-EP enchantment.

Thoughts?

I wonder if we could just borrow my Static Point Total from my Summonable modifier from my blog? Then make the increase in power grainy - say, 5% increase per, instead of the usual 25%. Still, your method looks workable to me. Hmmm. Needs must think more.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I wonder if we could just borrow my Static Point Total from my Summonable modifier from my blog? Then make the increase in power grainy - say, 5% increase per, instead of the usual 25%. Still, your method looks workable to me. Hmmm. Needs must think more.

That's basically what I'm doing here, by setting the static point total at 100. Unless I'm misunderstanding something in your implementation.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by PK

That's basically what I'm doing here, by setting the static point total at 100. Unless I'm misunderstanding something in your implementation.

Nope, after a quick reread I misunderstood you.

[munin]

Just out of curiosity, what was the difference that put Chinese Elemental Powers and Sorcery in the Thaumatology line while Divine Powers goes in the Powers line?