Maintaining ST

[DemiBenson]

Wikipedia/google “myostatin deletion” for a totally real-world explanation of how someone can have bulging muscles without working out.
Also note that in the real world, myostatin deletion is more prevalent in folks with genetic backgrounds from Northern Europe, which tracks with fantasy “barbarians”.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by DemiBenson

Wikipedia/google “myostatin deletion” for a totally real-world explanation of how someone can have bulging muscles without working out.

Do note that the classic "veiny bulging muscle" look of bodybuilders (and fantasy cover barbarians) comes from very specific tricks meant to produce the look but that are not necessarily good for producing strength. In particular, world class bodybuilders are usually severely dehydrated during competitions. Actual strongmen don't look like that.

[(E)]

Several years back I put myself through the kind of training discussed here while competing at international level highland games events and attempting a world record.
My $0.02 would include
- Increased consumption 100%-200% more, depending on if your calculating on volume eaten or price. This includes basic supplements.
- Increased sleep, an hour, partially mitigated by increased fitness.
- Fueling the extra muscle mass could justify reduced fatigue. Though in my case many of my workouts had an emphasis on endurance.
- Clothes etc are expensive/custom made when you have 6XL arms and an XL waist.
- Gym time was about 15 hours a week plus 8 hours of other training.
- Gained the quirk, always carried protein rich food.

[VonKatzen]

Originally Posted by DemiBenson

Wikipedia/google “myostatin deletion” for a totally real-world explanation of how someone can have bulging muscles without working out.

Certainly people can have genetic predispositions to be big and muscular. But those people can also take drugs and work out to reach the very highest levels of strength, which is why I was mainly talking about the top end and not simple power or athletics.

Originally Posted by RyanW

Do note that the classic "veiny bulging muscle" look of bodybuilders (and fantasy cover barbarians) comes from very specific tricks meant to produce the look but that are not necessarily good for producing strength. In particular, world class bodybuilders are usually severely dehydrated during competitions. Actual strongmen don't look like that.

That's true, though in their off-season they're almost as strong (though nowhere near as proficient) as a similarly sized powerlifter. That ripped out look does indeed come at the cost of a lot of biochemical efficiency.

[Hide]

While I find this idea and basically all of these suggestions pretty nice, I would bother with this ONLY if my campaign was about winning Mr. Universe & Strongman tournaments, keeping a Gym or a Dojo and the like…

Usually, you "buy" 25 types of kicks for a PC because you want improved effects with kicks or maybe something cool like a Chuck Norris-esque kick. You want 20 ST because you are into throwing lots of dice when you attack. Under such assumptions, I believe everybody pays the price: Investing a lot of CP for a very particular purpose that might not play handy at a certain point in the campaign. If this is just too much, I let them write an acceptable background (by my criteria) or buy an unusual background. That is all.

“Why would I need to do anything else if I already payed the CP, and all I want to do is play the campaign and see my awesome PC in action?” I think, if you “have to do something extra” to keep plain ST, you should as well, receive an extra benefit.

Perhaps the only mechanic I would accept/suggest is “Power Modifier: Ninja Training”, from DF 12: Ninjas (or anything comparable). Maybe you can do something similar for your PCs.

But personally, instead of "inviting" my PCs to plan their workouts and use our playtime to role-play (possibly) routine stuff (i.e. workouts to "maintain" stuff a PC already knows)… I would throw them challenges to make them think about their PCs as functional individuals in the setting (so they can do proper adjustments, if they wish).

Finally, I still have my PCs sleep, feed themselves, learn, look for masters and/or practice their stuff to improve it; this lets them learn about their surroundings and reminds them they are not robots… But that’s as much as I like to do in my settings. I like thinking we all got a tight agenda-schedule, so I focus on stuff which IMO will be funnier.

Take care!
- Hide

[tanksoldier]

^^^. Good point.

You paid for the strength. Do you have to pay to maintain height HT?

If you’re going to make a high strength character pay to keep what they already bought, you have to do it for every attribute and skill for every character.

When was the last time your character practiced CPR?

When was the last time your character went to the range?

When was the last time your character broke out FM 7-8 and studied basic infantry tactics?

When did they last ruck march?

When did they last do whatever you do to maintain high DX?

Oops, gotta reduce all those skills and attributes. People lose proficiency in skills they’ve only had a little training in, maybe even more than the stuff they have spent years studying.

If you’re gonna charge the strong guy 2 CP a year to keep his strength, effectively preventing him from doing something else with those points, you gotta charge everybody else too.

[VonKatzen]

Originally Posted by Hide

While I find this idea and basically all of these suggestions pretty nice, I would bother with this ONLY if my campaign was about winning Mr. Universe & Strongman tournaments, keeping a Gym or a Dojo and the like…

Take care!

Mainly I have it in mind for a very realistic campaign so players don't make unrealistically strong PCs just for the damage bonus. If you want to be that strong you have to maintain it. For more moderate levels of ST an active lifestyle, reasonable nutrition and some off-time in the gymnasium is adequate.

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

You paid for the strength. Do you have to pay to maintain height HT?

If you’re going to make a high strength character pay to keep what they already bought, you have to do it for every attribute and skill for every character.

I usually use the Maintaining Skills rules for all of it. Again, for moderate levels your basic build and plausible off-time will cover it, and there are already rules for it. But if you have very high levels in a skill you are going to need to show me where you got the time and equipment to keep it up.

If I was playing a straight fantasy game I probably wouldn't bother, but I do like the very realistic games where nobody gets CP, sometimes. Such characters need to use and practice skills to keep/improve them, and ST is right up there. I am not convinced IQ and DX require the same level of maintenance, as I think base neurology has a lot to do with that. I also wouldn't let them improve IQ or DX in such a game, at least not without magic or ultra-tech.