Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2018, 06:52 AM   #21
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Why?
Strongly agree. Anyone who thinks an afterlife exists in Cidri should be asked to provide a source.

Quote:
I like the absence of the D&D-spawned convention of priests as healers and/or undead-banishers with spells.
If we generalise the D&D idea a bit, it's that priests of god X tend to have weaker forms of the powers demonstrated by god X, or by his/her mythic avatars, etc., in the famous stories about them.
  • Most of what Jesus did in the gospels was healing afflictions, raising the dead, driving out demons, making food for the hungry, etc., so if his priests are getting their powers from the same source then it makes sense they can do more or less the same abilities or at least more restricted forms of those abilities.
  • A follower of Zeus might have the ability to make lightning, change form into a bull, make storms, perform feats of great strength like picking up mountains, etc.
  • A follower of Hanuman might have the ability to make himself larger or smaller, lighter or heavier, create useful objects, etc.

The flip side of this is what the god doesn't do, or his weaknesses, if any. Jesus may be powerful but you can't expect him to stab someone for you, he just doesn't do that. Those same restrictions might apply to his priests, or at least some of them, or at least to their magic.

The most superficial version of the D&D cleric has been done to death but a more general version of the idea may still have value. It could probably be implemented by having a god pick several powers from a menu.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 10:08 AM   #22
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
...
If we generalise the D&D idea a bit, it's that priests of god X tend to have weaker forms of the powers demonstrated by god X, or by his/her mythic avatars, etc., in the famous stories about them.
  • Most of what Jesus did in the gospels was healing afflictions, raising the dead, driving out demons, making food for the hungry, etc., so if his priests are getting their powers from the same source then it makes sense they can do more or less the same abilities or at least more restricted forms of those abilities.
  • A follower of Zeus might have the ability to make lightning, change form into a bull, make storms, perform feats of great strength like picking up mountains, etc.
  • A follower of Hanuman might have the ability to make himself larger or smaller, lighter or heavier, create useful objects, etc.

The flip side of this is what the god doesn't do, or his weaknesses, if any. Jesus may be powerful but you can't expect him to stab someone for you, he just doesn't do that. Those same restrictions might apply to his priests, or at least some of them, or at least to their magic.

The most superficial version of the D&D cleric has been done to death but a more general version of the idea may still have value. It could probably be implemented by having a god pick several powers from a menu.
Yes, I quite agree, and have enjoyed playing or even GM'ing game settings with that sort of model, sometimes.

Also, there are/were Christian miracle healers, though they tend to be a few specific saints or shrines or faith healers or charlatans, rather than relatively common priests or mace-wielding fighters.

But I also quite like game settings like TFT where although many have faith and so religion may have great social, economic, and power-political effects, whether there are any actual god-related magic powers that aren't like spells/potions/enchantments or faith effects is a GM secret that PCs need to discover or have or get the right background to discover.

And I also like it when a GM homebrews a setting and invents original interesting magic cosmologies, especially when they do something that isn't just a remix of the D&D-based model where they're just another list of class-based powers balanced against other PC classes' powers.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 04:14 PM   #23
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Yep. I've given up and gone back to the role-playing / religion-design approach. Learning and using magic is by the book (ITL). If your religion has an affiliation with magic, then you've got another source for learning spells and buying magic items aside from the ones listed in ITL.

A beginning character cannot start with either Priest or Theologian talents. They will have to earn those talents through role-play within their religion. The top-ranking NPCs in the religion must offer the status to you or approve your application for those statuses.

Priest will have the stated role-playing effects plus you _may_ be able to use it as a "job" to earn a wage as appropriate and available within the local group of your religion. A bonus will be applied toward favorable reactions when dealing with your religious brothers and sisters. Likewise, a penalty to reactions might be applied if you haven't been obeying the tenets and customs of your faith.

Theologian will have the same but slightly more pronounced effects of Priest. Better chance of earning a wage for performing duties. Slightly higher wage. Slightly higher bonuses and penalties to reactions.

Some religions might require learning their "religious tongue" before you can be ordained. Some of those might require Literacy as well. Some religions might require you to learn certain spells before being ordained. Some might ban certain spells, magic or normal items, etc.

New spells will be created as/if needed/desired (RPG business as usual).

What I would like to see (get help with) is designing or fleshing out the workings of the religions listed in ITL. Fleshed out in manner similar to how the Wizard's Guild is fleshed out.

Do they teach spells? Which spells and what is the price of this service?
Do they ban spells? Which ones?
Tithing?
Do they sell magic items? Which ones and how much do they cost?
Are there weapon and armor restrictions?

Perhaps these questions are mostly irrelevant in a broad sense for the major religions but are there small, local sects/order/denominations within the major religions where these questions have more relevance. At present, that would seem like a good approach for fleshing out the religious aspects of a new campaign -- to outline some of these smaller sub-groups within one of the major religions for that old-fashioned cult-y feel.
__________________
Miranda Warning: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a forum of rules-lawyers.

Last edited by platimus; 11-27-2018 at 04:17 PM.
platimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 05:04 PM   #24
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

What about religions that are all about shrines to your departed family members. ITL they can actually manifest.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 07:16 PM   #25
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by platimus View Post
A beginning character cannot start with either Priest or Theologian talents. They will have to earn those talents through role-play within their religion. The top-ranking NPCs in the religion must offer the status to you or approve your application for those statuses.
I actually quite like this approach and not just for the Priest/Theologian talents. It would make it hard if a player had his heart set on a 'Solomon Kane' archetype, but I'm sure a clever GM could figure something out.

I still have the same challenge, however, in that the talents really need some kind of in-game benefit (beyond job qualification and societal prestige) to justify choosing the priestly path. I guess it comes back to the original question "why do priests exist?"... not in the context of their broader role in the campaign setting, but in the more specific context of the adventuring player character. What is their function in the party?
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 08:39 PM   #26
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I actually quite like this approach and not just for the Priest/Theologian talents. It would make it hard if a player had his heart set on a 'Solomon Kane' archetype, but I'm sure a clever GM could figure something out.
Thanks. Why does it make it hard? I haven't read any SK books but I saw a good SK movie. I don't remember SK doing any of the things described by Priest and Theologian in the RAW during that movie. What can SK do that can't be accomplished with spells and magic-items? Whatever spells and magic-items that he needs to be SK could taught, loaned, or given to him by the church or some sub-cult/wing of the church.

Quote:
I still have the same challenge, however, in that the talents really need some kind of in-game benefit (beyond job qualification and societal prestige) to justify choosing the priestly path. I guess it comes back to the original question "why do priests exist?"... not in the context of their broader role in the campaign setting, but in the more specific context of the adventuring player character. What is their function in the party?
I feel like I've buffed those talents as much as they should ever be buffed. If I were writing ITL, I'd drop them altogether.
__________________
Miranda Warning: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a forum of rules-lawyers.
platimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 08:40 PM   #27
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
What about religions that are all about shrines to your departed family members. ITL they can actually manifest.
What about them? Where's the problem?
__________________
Miranda Warning: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a forum of rules-lawyers.
platimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 08:56 PM   #28
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by platimus View Post
Thanks. Why does it make it hard? I haven't read any SK books but I saw a good SK movie. I don't remember SK doing any of the things described by Priest and Theologian in the RAW during that movie. What can SK do that can't be accomplished with spells and magic-items? Whatever spells and magic-items that he needs to be SK could taught, loaned, or given to him by the church or some sub-cult/wing of the church.
You're absolutely right (though one could argue that his berserker strength is faith-driven), but I wasn't referring to his powers. Rather I was referring to the fact that his 'adventuring' started after he left the priesthood which would be difficult using your model requiring a character to acquire priestly training later in their career. Sorry if wasn't clear about that (its still a good idea, though).
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 09:05 PM   #29
Senturian
 
Senturian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Mount Bethel, Pennsylvania
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

Loving several of these threads. Providing me with new ideas.

Priests on an adventure or reasoning their existence at all?, could be guided by their Deity, the goal being to assist in the completion of the adventure, or to gain experience to be used sometime in the Priest's future.
This making the assumption of Destiny. And that can be explained by the GM being the one to create it, which in a sense, he does.

the Spells, Skills and Talents are useful in the PCs choice of activities.
which ones and how they can be applied is between the players and GM.

My thought is Priests on Cidri are a counter by the Gods against Demons and their relation to magic. Neither Good nor Evil can risk an all out war that may lead to the destruction of the world (Ragnarok). So use others to gain an advantage that will guarantee their side wins.

Demons are unable to enter Cidri's plane of existence on their own and can only stay for short periods of time when summoned. they'll grant power, but at what cost?, and is the PC willing to pay it?

The Gods will assist their "Favored". If they don't, they risk losing followers.
This assistance is limited so as not to "mark" the PC, and lead to his eventual defeat.
Of course not all Gods are on the side of good.
Senturian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 09:23 PM   #30
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Why do Priests exist?

My answer is that the undead problem is obvious and the priests are doing something to keep the problem managed, but are unable to prove that any gods exist.

If pressed wizards will grudgingly admit that priests are using magic that is specialized for dealing with ghosts.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.