11-09-2018, 12:53 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
A few years ago, when The Last Gasp was still fairly new, I asked a question about how to integrate TLG and the long-distance movement fatigue rules on p. B426. Mr. Cole mentioned that he had developed a provisional system, but it was broken and so it was dropped from the article. Has anyone managed to work out a good method for that?
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11-09-2018, 12:23 PM | #2 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
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11-09-2018, 01:43 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
I have a method, but I don't know how good it is.
Travel Every character has a basic daily rate, that is determined by their speed (or move). This represents the distance they can travel over average terrain without any ill effects such as lost fatigue. Basic Daily Rate A character’s basic daily rate is twice their basic speed, adjusted for encumbrance as shown in the table below. If a character has increased or decreased their move score, use that in place of basic speed. Encumbrance Level and BDR Encumbrance levels don’t have a huge effect on BDR. Carrying a lot of gear doesn’t greatly alter the speed with which you can walk. It will, however, affect how tiring a walk or hike will be. Code:
Encumbrance BDRx FPx None BL ×1.2 ×1.0 Light 2×BL ×1.0 ×1.0 Medium 3×BL ×1.0 ×1.5 Heavy 6×BL ×1.0 ×2.0 X-Heavy 10×BL ×0.8 ×3.0 The group determines the pace at which they will travel, selecting it from the table below. Code:
Pace Daily Distance FP Walking BDR×1.0 0* Hiking BDR×1.2 4 Forced March BDR×1.6 8 All Out BDR×2.0 12 A successful hiking roll halves the fatigue expenditure. The hiking roll is optional, so critical failures are ignored. Any group travelling with a leader who has the hiking skill and leadership at 12+ can roll once for the whole group versus their average hiking skill. The distances above assume that 6 hours are spent “on the march” with the rest of the day dedicated to striking or making camp, rest, meals, and so on, so dividing the daily distance by 6 gives speed in MPH. Every two hours beyond this increases the distance by 1/3, but also increases the FP cost by 50% and applies a -2 to the travel roll. The GM may impose other consequences for time lost to other travel-related activities. Travelling at Different Rates It is possible that slower party members can only keep up with the group by adopting a different pace. A hiking pace for some members may be a forced march pace for others or even a walking pace for some. Either set a pace and have the group travel the distance of the slowest member or have the leader set a target distance and then each member of the group will determine the pace that they must keep to achieve this. Getting There First Sometimes it is important to know how long it takes to get somewhere, not how far the party can go with 6 hours of travel spread over a 24-hour day. To determine speed (in mph), calculate the daily distance for the chosen pace and divide by 6. Every two hours of travel at this pace without regular breaks costs the FP given in the table above, modified for encumbrance. A travel roll may be made to halve this. Terrain and Weather Effects The type of terrain crossed will determine the actual distance travelled Code:
Terrain Type Examples Distance Multiplier Cost/ Mile Very Bad Dense forest, mountains. ×0.20 5 miles Bad Broken ground, forest, steep hills. ×0.50 2 miles Average Light forest or rolling hills. Typical roads. ×1.00 1 mile Good Level plains. Imperial roads. ×1.25 0.8 mile Snow 1-3” snow. (Ankle deep). ×0.50 2 miles Deep Snow 3”-12” snow. (Knee deep.) ×0.25 4 miles Ice Ice from snow or sleet. ×0.50 2 miles Solid Ice A frozen lake or river. ×0.50 2 miles Skates can be used on solid ice. Treat as good terrain and use skating for the travel roll. If I were going to further refine this, I'd think about making the FP reduction for the hiking roll more variable than "all" or "half".
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11-10-2018, 01:16 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
Is BDR in miles/day in your system, so that an average person has a BDR of 10 miles per day, assuming six hours of daily travel?
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11-10-2018, 07:32 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
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[Edited to add] An average person (Move 5, no hiking skill) on good terrain (plains or road) without encumbrance going at a hiking pace (so that they're tired, but will recover with a single overnight rest 4FP at 20/10=2 FP/Hour is 8 hours for full recovery), would travel 10*1.2*1.2*1.25 miles, or 18 miles. Three miles per hour for 6 hours a day doesn't seem overly low for an everyman to me.
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I didn't realize who I was until I stopped being who I wasn't. Formerly known as Bookman- forum name changed 1/3/2018. Last edited by Brandy; 11-10-2018 at 08:14 AM. |
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11-10-2018, 05:09 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
Every time you spend 1 AP to walk around (giving you 10% of your Move in Movement Points) you might make a skill roll against Hiking so that it costs you 0 AP if you get a critical success, like with attacks.
For long-term walks, the AP/step cost could be averaged out at 1 minus 0.1 x however many points you have hiking above 10, minimum 0.1 for realism. |
11-10-2018, 06:56 PM | #7 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
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It might be interesting at some point to work out in detail the AP costs of hiking and resulting FP losses and compare those to the movement costs in TLG, but for now I just want to set the regular FP costs of long-distance travel, so we can get an estimate of how tired the characters will be when they arrive at their destination and have to jump straight into a fight, or whatever. Last edited by lugaid; 11-10-2018 at 07:01 PM. |
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11-11-2018, 07:30 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
A fairly simple idea I had was to have many of the things that currently cost FP - hiking, extra effort, magic, etc - be tracked somewhat separately from TLG FP. This temporary FP loss would follow the normal rules (EDIT: by which I mean those from Basic, not The Last Gasp) for recovery, and each point of temporary FP loss you are suffering reduces your maximum AP by 1 (although thinking further on it, 2 or even 3 may be more appropriate). It may be appropriate to limit how much temporary FP loss you can suffer, and going beyond this takes away from the long-term FP from the article.
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GURPS Overhaul Last edited by Varyon; 11-11-2018 at 07:35 AM. |
11-11-2018, 07:33 AM | #9 | ||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
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Let's move away from "everyman" and look at some adventurers. Consider a group of adventurers with HT 12 and speed 6. With HT 12, 6 FP per day is sustainable, so they can go at our hiking pace for 8 hours per day and not need to make the hiking roll, which would be at -2, and still be able to do the same distance the next day with 8 hours rest. On good terrain, they would travel 12(BDR) x 1.2(Hiking) x 1.25 (Terrain) x 4/3 (8 hours)=24 miles per day. Given HT 12, that matches what you're looking for pretty well ISTM. This does assume Light Encumbrance. Take them up to medium, and now they're pretty much dependent upon being skilled hikers or restricted to 6 hours per day as a sustainable pace. B
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11-18-2018, 03:59 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking Redux
I've been away, I apologize. Life sometimes, neh?
Varyon: That's an interesting idea, but it seems like it removes a lot of the benefits of using TLG in the first place, other than maybe incorporating AP. Brandy: You're convincing me more, but I am still left wondering how to enforce the break time in the middle. One of the things about TLG that doesn't fit this is that there's no real benefit to resting for a half hour or so. In the original system, that would bring back 3FP for use in the second half of the day. I'm also not convinced that an organized military schedule is appropriate to small groups. As the authors said in Swordbearer, many years ago when explaining why they chose to use data from wilderness walking and hiking groups rather than military data, "This is probably a fairer test of typical travel times than military values, since very few groups of casual adventurers and travellers function with military discipline or fitness, but yet few are plagued by military bureaucracy!" They went on to account for the latter factor by increasing the number and length of breaks required for large groups in much the same way that you have above. This also helps to account for the faster movement of scouts and other small detachments. My thinking during the last week or so has been that maybe we should consider revising TLG slightly to allow for some FP to be recovered at something like the original rate. My current thoughts are also that each "stage" of fatigue should take an order of magnitude more time (or so) to recover. So, Mild Fatigue should recover at 2 hours (or 120 minutes)/starting FP, Severe Fatigue at 20 hours/FP (the TLG rate for Mild Fatigue), and Deep Fatigue remains at 240 hours/FP. This actually could allow us to simply use the travel fatigue rates as listed, since a half-hour or so (36 minutes—and we could change that to 100 minutes/FP if we want an exact 10 minutes/FP for a starting 10FP character, but that seems a slim benefit that screws with other things like the simple hour to recover all Mild Fatigue losses) gives back 3FP in the middle of the day. That allows the 10FP character to spend as much as 13FP per day in fatigue costs for travel, just as the current system does, then requires 3FP recovered during the midday break, an hour for the first 5FP (at 12 minutes per FP recovered), followed by 2 hours per each additional FP recovered, or usually up to 8 hours to recover 4FP. All assuming No Encumbrance, of course. Carrying more increases the FP cost considerably, which seems right. This also seems to me to help with the Magic/TLG disparity to some degree, as well as other similar unintended consequences. EDIT TO ADD: Does that seem reasonable? Last edited by lugaid; 11-18-2018 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Needed question |
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