10-17-2018, 09:42 AM | #1 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
We had a situation come up in a game, where a kick to the legs was made against a character with a mediocre dodge and a sky-high judo parry, with the intent to prevent the character from parrying, or at least inflict a penalty. Martial arts is in full effect though not technical grappling (as it has its own system), and we're trying to be as RAW as possible (its an arena game).
On martial arts page 123 it says that I can parry with my leg using Karate, Brawling, Boxing, or Sumo, though the last two get a -2 penalty. It appears I cannot leg parry at all with judo, but I can freely and without penalty parry kicks to the foot with my hands. On page 122, "What is... a Parry?" it indicates you can count yanking a limb out of the way as a parry. Would this apply to judo legwork? it seems like it should, but as above, you can't leg parry with judo. Now for the weird stuff. After parrying the low kick with my hands, I can freely throw my opponent, and it appears that I can stick him in an arm lock without grappling first, because I've bare-handed parried his melee attack (see Basic 403 or Martial Arts 65). This is quite bizarre, as I didn't get anywhere near his arm. The throw I can maybe justify, but the arm lock almost reads like a murphy rule. If I was the GM this would be nice to settle, but we're looking for a RAW solution. So my questions are:
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10-17-2018, 10:02 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
There's nothing about requiring the parry to be against an arm-driven attack to be able to do an Arm Lock after it? If it worked against parrying kicks then it'd probably work after parrying headbutts/bites too, which would also seem strange.
I remember an optional rule like "low line parries" somewhere in martial arts which was a -2 to use arms to parry attacks aimed at the legs, the point of which I assume was to give incentive to using Leg Parry instead. |
10-17-2018, 12:56 PM | #3 | ||
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
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Yeah, it seems very strange. I can't find it though. Quote:
I've been looking all over martial arts for some rule like that and I can't find one.
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Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one! |
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10-17-2018, 01:46 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
I know this is a "rules question" and not a "real world" question, but maybe a "real world" answer can help with the rule?
I took Judo, briefly, and it's a "soft" art that focuses on using an opponent's energy against him or her. As such, those who practice it don't "block" strikes (or strike, themselves), and a "parry" is meant to unbalance the foe and set him or her up for a sweep or throw. The idea is to take down the opponent to a ground-fight, which is where Judo excels. In Judo, feet stay on the ground, mostly, to provide balance and stability. You spend a lot of time on leg strength and flexibility so you can get your center of mass low and keep it low. So, the arm-parry of a low-line kick, followed by a sweep or throw that sets up a lock seems quite correct. Now then, I'd call it a leg lock and not an arm lock. You'd probably see an opponent's ankle wedged behind the knee of his other leg, as the Judo practitioner leveraged that leg with the other foot to threaten a break or dislocation. Basically, the attacker winds up face-down on the ground, with one ankle folded into the knee of the other leg, with the second ankle in the hands and under the control of the Judo guy, who can break the ankle and/or dislocate the knee. The Judo guy would also be down on the ground, too -- either back-to-back with the opponent and pulling the ankle down, or using his leg to leverage a push of the opponent's controlled ankle into the opponent's own crotch. The key concept is that the Judo guy wants to take the opponent to the ground, and twist him or her into a painful or injurious knot. Judo people don't fight while standing for very long. Hope that helps.
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-- MXLP:9 [JD=1, DK=1, DM-M=1, M(FAW)=1, SS=2, Nym=1 (nose coffee), sj=1 (nose cocoa), Maz=1] "Some days, I just don't know what to think." -Daryl Dixon. Last edited by tshiggins; 10-17-2018 at 06:12 PM. |
10-17-2018, 02:13 PM | #5 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
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Personally I've always thought it should just be "Limb Lock" and also allow locks of legs after kicks, or even the head/neck. Having three techniques to do one basic set of control locks is... untidy in my opinion. Quote:
Right, either a Leg Lock or Leg Grapple, the former followed by attempts to cripple the leg, the later by a takedown. |
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10-17-2018, 02:29 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
I thought throws/locks only worked without moving after C-reach weapons and if it was reach 1 you had to take a step forward to be in grappling range to do them. With committed attack, would it work if you took 2 steps forward? Someone doing All Out Attack on their next turn could travel Half Move, so someone with Move 6 might even be able to use it against a reach 3 weapon?
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10-17-2018, 04:23 PM | #7 | ||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
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Incidentally, I think it is rare for any martial art meant for actual self-defense to omit Brawling or Karate. The exceptions should include the Low-Line Defense technique. and the exceptions that don't even include Boxing or Sumo should have Skill Adaptation. Even better, just make Low-Line Defense legal for Wrestling and Judo, since that technique was apparently written assuming those skills would unrealistically be exempt from the penalty to parry low-line attacks. |
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10-17-2018, 05:41 PM | #8 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
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But yes, if you aren't in Close Combat, you have to Step into Close Combat for Arm'Wrist Lock. Judo Throw does not have this requirement. Quote:
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Arm/Wrist Lock implies that your foe must be within 1 yard of you when they make the attack and still within 1 yard when attempt Arm/Wrist Lock or Judo Throw. Arm/Wrist Lock: "On your first turn following the parry, you may attempt to capture your attacker’s arm if he’s still within one yard." One the other hand, Judo Throw does not: "On the turn immediately after a successful Judo parry, you may attempt to throw your attacker if he’s within a yard." Personally my ruling is: No Judo Throwing someone unless they are within 1 yard of you when they attacked and still within 1 yard of you when you attempt the Judo Throw. So if they attack you and then take a double Step back (from high speed or whatever) and you Committed Attack into Reach 1, you're golden. Last edited by evileeyore; 10-17-2018 at 05:49 PM. |
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10-17-2018, 05:43 PM | #9 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
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Low Line Parries, under the Harsh Realism for Unarmed Fighters optional rules, pg 124. |
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10-17-2018, 06:20 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Re: Parrying "Low Kicks" With Judo (Martial Arts)
This is right, although I'd restate the sequence as, "Parry, followed by a leg grapple or sweep to the other foot for a take-down, followed by a leg-lock to cripple."
__________________
-- MXLP:9 [JD=1, DK=1, DM-M=1, M(FAW)=1, SS=2, Nym=1 (nose coffee), sj=1 (nose cocoa), Maz=1] "Some days, I just don't know what to think." -Daryl Dixon. |
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harsh realism, low line parries |
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