Telescopic Vision Clarification.

[Jeminai]

If my target is 50 yards away and I have Telescopic Vision Level 3, I understand that my penalty to hit (for range alone) is -5 instead of -8. If I aim then I get to take of -2 per level for a total penalty of -2 (at 50 yards)

The part I don't understand is "This ability can also function as a telescopic sight, giving up to +1 Accuracy per level with ranged attacks provided you take an Aim maneuver for seconds equal to the bonus"

If I am shooting with a regular bow (Acc 2) and I aim for 4 turns (ACC +3) what additional benefit is Telescopic Vision Lev 3 giving me over the reduced range?

I am probably over thinking this but I am just not getting it. Do I get ACC +6 ?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

If my target is 50 yards away and I have Telescopic Vision Level 3, I understand that my penalty to hit (for range alone) is -5 instead of -8.

Nope. Telescopic vision reduces vision penalties for distance. It does not affect shooting except for the bonus to Acc.

[Jeminai]

Okay, I think that hit something, let's see if I have this:

"You can 'zoom in' with your eyesas if using binoculars. Each level lets
you ignore -1 in range penalties to vision rolls at all times, or -2 in range penalties [to Vision rolls] if you take an Aim maneuver to zoom in on a particular target." [I added the bracketed "to Vision rolls"]

So this is saying that when characters would get passive Vision rolls to spot something in the distance their range penalties are reduced by the level of Telescopic Vision they possess. If they are purposefully looking at something (a person they notice on the road) they can then 'zoom in' to reduce the penalties further, and possibly see more detail?


"This ability can also function as a telescopic sight, giving up to +1 Accuracy per level with ranged attacks provided you take an Aim maneuver for
seconds equal to the bonus (see Scopes under Firearm Accessories, p. 411)."

This is saying that if my target is 50 yards away (-8 to hit for range) and I aim for a number of rounds equal to my Telescopic Vision (3 in my example) then and only then would my penalties for range be reduced by the levels of Telescopic vision I possess on top of the ACC+2 rounds of aiming?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

So this is saying that when characters would get passive Vision rolls to spot something in the distance their range penalties are reduced by the level of Telescopic Vision they possess. If they are purposefully looking at something (a person they notice on the road) they can then 'zoom in' to reduce the penalties further, and possibly see more detail?


This is saying that if my target is 50 yards away (-8 to hit for range) and I aim for a number of rounds equal to my Telescopic Vision (3 in my example) then and only then would my penalties for range be reduced by the levels of Telescopic vision I possess on top of the ACC+2 rounds of aiming?

Almost but not quite.
Its either the -1 or -2 (basically it doubles if you Aim) not a further reduction. Other supplements have used that doubling wording to make it more clear.
Likewise the ACC bonus is also a separate function and not cumulative with the range reduction. "This can also.." meaning another use not cumulative.
I realize the wording could have been clearer but hindsight is 20/20 and when writing its tough sometimes to see how it reads without your own bias.
In other words the author knows what they meant so reads it that way even if others might not.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

So this is saying that when characters would get passive Vision rolls to spot something in the distance their range penalties are reduced by the level of Telescopic Vision they possess. If they are purposefully looking at something (a person they notice on the road) they can then 'zoom in' to reduce the penalties further, and possibly see more detail?

Pretty much, but it's not just passive/active rolls. Any Vision roll that isn't specifically targeted at a given point (including active searches) gets the 1/level reduction. Any Vision roll that has a specific target you are aimed at (such as noticing if the guy you are watching is pulling a weapon) gets the 2/level reduction.

[Jeminai]

So let me set up a a few scenarios to see if I have all this right:

To spot a man standing on the road (barring camouflage and all other modifiers) at 50 yards away I would normally be at a -8 to see him (assuming I am just scanning the country side and am not expecting anyone to be out here , of course). If I have Telescopic Vision Level 3, I would be at -5 instead?

Assuming I successfully make my Vision roll, I ask my GM if the man is bearing any weapons, so I take an Aim maneuver and focus in on him to see more detail. I get another roll now at -2 because now my Telescopic Vision is being used to "zoom in"? Or maybe I need to Aim for 3 turns to get this full bonus?

Seeing that he does have a weapon (a bow), I level my crossbow at him, and begin to Aim. My crossbow's accuracy is 4. If I shoot after the first turn of aiming all I get is the +4, correct? My range penalty would be -8.

If I shoot after 3 rounds of aiming (equal to my level of Telescopic Vision) then I would get Acc+2 (1 turn of Aim for ACC, followed by 2 more turns of Aim) but my penalty for range would be -5 instead of -8?

If I aimed for only 2 turns then I would get my ACC bonus of 4 +1 for the additional round but my range penalty would be -6 because the 2 rounds of aiming only allowed me to use 2 of the 3 levels of Telescopic Vision I have?

Lastly, if I opted for the -60% limitation of "No-Targeting", I would only get the -1 reduction to range when making Vision rolls. I could not ever get the +2/level on Vision rolls to "zoom in" nor would I get the ability to reduce range when aiming to fire a ranged weapon, correct?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

To spot a man standing on the road (barring camouflage and all other modifiers) at 50 yards away I would normally be at a -8 to see him (assuming I am just scanning the country side and am not expecting anyone to be out here , of course). If I have Telescopic Vision Level 3, I would be at -5 instead?

Assuming I successfully make my Vision roll, I ask my GM if the man is bearing any weapons, so I take an Aim maneuver and focus in on him to see more detail. I get another roll now at -2 because now my Telescopic Vision is being used to "zoom in"? Or maybe I need to Aim for 3 turns to get this full bonus?

Seeing that he does have a weapon (a bow), I level my crossbow at him, and begin to Aim. My crossbow's accuracy is 4. If I shoot after the first turn of aiming all I get is the +4, correct? My range penalty would be -8.

These are all correct.

Originally Posted by Jeminai

If I shoot after 3 rounds of aiming (equal to my level of Telescopic Vision) then I would get Acc+2 (1 turn of Aim for ACC, followed by 2 more turns of Aim) but my penalty for range would be -5 instead of -8?

If I aimed for only 2 turns then I would get my ACC bonus of 4 +1 for the additional round but my range penalty would be -6 because the 2 rounds of aiming only allowed me to use 2 of the 3 levels of Telescopic Vision I have?

These two are not correct, because when aiming a weapon, Telescopic Vision only acts as a scope, it does not also reduce the range penalty. So, in both examples, you'd get the bonuses you stated, but the range penalty would still be -8.

Originally Posted by Jeminai

Lastly, if I opted for the -60% limitation of "No-Targeting", I would only get the -1 reduction to range when making Vision rolls. I could not ever get the +2/level on Vision rolls to "zoom in" nor would I get the ability to reduce range when aiming to fire a ranged weapon, correct?

No Targeting doesn't mention anything about removing the ability to zoom in, it only specifies you don't get the Accuracy bonus in combat. So, I'd interpret that to mean you can still get the +2/level on Vision rolls. It's only the "scope bonus" you can't get.

[Jeminai]

So I found this about Aim on B 364

"Your combined bonus from all targeting systems (scopes, sights, computers,
etc.) cannot exceed the weapon’s base Accuracy. For instance, if you add a telescopic sight that gives +4 Acc to a pistol with Acc 2, the bonus is +2, not +4."


Should this apply to Telescopic Vision?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

So I found this about Aim on B 364

"Your combined bonus from all targeting systems (scopes, sights, computers,
etc.) cannot exceed the weapon’s base Accuracy. For instance, if you add a telescopic sight that gives +4 Acc to a pistol with Acc 2, the bonus is +2, not +4."


Should this apply to Telescopic Vision?

Yes, I'd say it does. Telescopic Vision specifically references "Scopes" when describing the bonus it gives to attacks, and doesn't say anything about ignoring that limit on how much it gives, so it should apply.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

So I found this about Aim on B 364

"Your combined bonus from all targeting systems (scopes, sights, computers,
etc.) cannot exceed the weapon’s base Accuracy. For instance, if you add a telescopic sight that gives +4 Acc to a pistol with Acc 2, the bonus is +2, not +4."


Should this apply to Telescopic Vision?

Yes. It's acting as a targetting system.