[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#27): Common Sense, Intuition

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

* Sit with their back to a wall with cover to exits.
* Top off a fuel tank after any driving.
* Close and lock a door.
* Constantly check crowds with Body Language and Observation for threats.
* Put a fresh battery in any piece of electronics after use.
* Clean their weapons during downtime.
* Seek out cover when moving.
* Have a bug-out bag ready nearby.

(Discussing SOP's, not CS.)
This guy sounds just like Jason Bourne. Would you prefer having him write out 8+ SOP's on his character sheet, or just have some umbrella advantage?

Even if you would have them explicitly stated, I'm sure there are many GM's who wouldn't mind the cinematic catch-all.
(Changing batteries after use is excessive though- but checking or recharging nightly wouldn't be.)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

(Discussing SOP's, not CS.)
This guy sounds just like Jason Bourne. Would you prefer having him write out 8+ SOP's on his character sheet, or just have some umbrella advantage?

Probably a combination of a few style perks (and he has at least three styles), Combat Reflexes (which covers a lot just by keeping him at Condition Yellow), Luck, Danger Sense and high Soldier skill. Alternatively or additionally he might have wildcard skills, and can use wildcard points for player guidance to "perk-up" these SOPs as needed.

Even if you would have them explicitly stated, I'm sure there are many GM's who wouldn't mind the cinematic catch-all.

3 points per SOP perk per session seems about right (in line with both Gizmos and Destiny points).

(Changing batteries after use is excessive though- but checking or recharging nightly wouldn't be.)

On actual combat missions in actual Iraq, our PCCs and PCIs included carrying spare fresh batteries for all battery using gear.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

For example checking doors for booby traps is paranoia 99% of the time.

Why do you keep seeking to turn Advantages and Perks into Disadvantages?

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Otaku keeps saying that real world common sense should include this kind of hyper-preparedness...

Originally Posted by Otaku

The third mess-up on my part was not qualifying that I was viewing the proposed trait by NineDaysDead as something not generic, which means when I stated all SOP, I was flat out wrong.

Stopped saying that several posts ago and apologized for it. The bold text is from the original, not something I added to highlight it in the quote.

I've said some things that were wrong; I try to speak up when I realize they are wrong and apologize for them. I've said a lot of things that were confusing; some of that at least is because of things like the above getting missed. Others are because we both keep making longer and longer posts, trying to be more thorough in an effort to avoid further misunderstanding.

I am going to address how I would define real world common sense one more time. As a reminder, this would only affect you directly if... you needed to understand why I did or did not like a trait, or if we were talking about non-GURPS stuff. I see it as incorporating elements of not doing really foolish things, as well as doing simple, sometimes tedious things. I have caused more harm than good trying to explain how my mind has connected these to the GURPS traits Common Sense and Perks (respectively). As someone who lacks common sense (and definitely Common Sense), the best I can do is get into a habit of taking certain precautions to avoid doing really stupid things. Most are too minor/narrowly defined for a GURPS SOP, but something akin to them might qualify. That is the connection my brain is making, but which I keep failing to explain.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Why do you keep seeking to turn Advantages and Perks into Disadvantages?

Why do you seek to broaden advantages to cover the same things as other advantages? If you only do the thing when it matters you have Precognition or Danger Sense. To be an SOP perk it has to something you routinely do under adventuring conditions. This isn't disadvantagous, but if you did everything that could potentially be an SOP on regular basis, regardless of conditions it probably would be. Even if it wasn't it still doesn't really have much to do with Common Sense.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I am going to address how I would define real world common sense one more time. As a reminder, this would only affect you directly if... you needed to understand why I did or did not like a trait, or if we were talking about non-GURPS stuff. I see it as incorporating elements of not doing really foolish things, as well as doing simple, sometimes tedious things. I have caused more harm than good trying to explain how my mind has connected these to the GURPS traits Common Sense and Perks (respectively). As someone who lacks common sense (and definitely Common Sense), the best I can do is get into a habit of taking certain precautions to avoid doing really stupid things. Most are too minor/narrowly defined for a GURPS SOP, but something akin to them might qualify. That is the connection my brain is making, but which I keep failing to explain.

Sure, it probably reasonably can include things that could be phrased as positive statements such as "You probably want to put on a spacesuit first."

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

On actual combat missions in actual Iraq, our PCCs and PCIs included carrying spare fresh batteries for all battery using gear.

Sorry, I'd read that as "after every single use," which would be excessive. How often would they actually be changed?

I think actually, I find SOP's too granular. Take, for example, Pants Positive Safety. Obviously important in real life, but I have trouble imagining a GM who'd make players roll every time they drew their guns to avoid unfortunate self-injury unless they'd explicitly stated the safety was on.

Maybe then define them a bit more broadly- do all the thiefy things a thief does, do all the spycraft things that Jason Bourne does, etc.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why do you seek to broaden advantages to cover the same things as other advantages?

I don't. But sometimes I seek to build new Advantages or find ways to make an Advantage no one uses into something useful so it might see playtime.

This isn't disadvantagous, but if you did everything that could potentially be an SOP on regular basis, regardless of conditions it probably would be.

If your Player puts 50 points into SOPs they should be treated like Perks, not some level of derangement or paranoia... because they are still Perks.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

If your Player puts 50 points into SOPs they should be treated like Perks, not some level of derangement or paranoia... because they are still Perks.

Yes, because it assumes that they are doing these things as appropriate. If you assume that Common Sense includes a roll for failure to perform every possible SOP, that isn't about doing a few behaviors as appropriate any longer.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, because it assumes that they are doing these things as appropriate.

In other words; Having every SOP Perk means you do things as appropriate...

... but ...

If you assume that Common Sense includes a roll for failure to perform every possible SOP, that isn't about doing a few behaviors as appropriate any longer.

... having a Meta-Advantage that says you have every SOP Perk if needed but requires an IQ roll is suddenly inappropriate.

I can understand not liking some 'Cosmic' version of SOP on steroids, or even the suggestion of rewriting Common Sense to be this, but: If it's an Advantage it should be treated as an Advantage.