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Old 10-11-2015, 07:46 PM   #1
Koningkrush
 
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Default Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

If something like a giant were to use wrench limb on someone, how much damage would it be before he just tore the entire arm off?
I'm assuming that a limb is double the amount needed to cripple it, but what about the neck? Should it just be a special narrative effect from dying due to a wrench limb attack to the neck?
If so, what about a character who wouldn't die from losing his head? That would mean ripping off the head would be impossible.

**Btw, I don't shy away from rules that are realistic but are also deadly.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

It's a GM's call when dismemberment of a limb happens, but it's an option after you've hit the limb destruction threshold (twice crippling).

You're correct, decapitation doesn't happen until you're dead, just like dismemberment doesn't happen until the limb is "dead".

If you don't need your head to live, it's basically a limb with eyes on it, and I'd use probably the leg dismemberment rules, just to be conservative. If you have Powers or Horror, Injury Tolerance: Independent Body Parts has rules for cutting bits off that keep fighting; in there is a note about severed heads and not needing it, which I'm sure includes a decapitation threshold. But it's worth noting that IT: Independant Body Parts bits seem to get cut off more easily than normal limbs (If I remember correctly) - I think at the crippling threshold rather than the destruction threshold.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

There IS an instant death rule in the Basic Set though, which is just simply "if you're completely incapacitated and take an obviously lethal attack that you can't avoid in any way, you die".

This is great for "regular Joe is stuck in a guillotine" although it gets a little weird for "Joe Super Hero With 200 HP is in a normal guillotine" sort of situations. If the GM and players don't have the same intuition as to how these should work, it can get disappointing.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koningkrush View Post
I'm assuming that a limb is double the amount needed to cripple it, but what about the neck? Should it just be a special narrative effect from dying due to a wrench limb attack to the neck?
Yes. As often as this comes up, maybe it needed to go into Basic explicitly that the threshold for a crippling injury to your neck, head, vital organs or other instant kill location is 6 x HP.

Quote:
If so, what about a character who wouldn't die from losing his head? That would mean ripping off the head would be impossible.
If he can still die, not really, it just won't be losing his head that "actually" killed him.

And no, there absolutely does not need to be a rule that makes it easier to remove heads than to inflict automatic death at -5 x HP.

What I might like to see is to raise the threshold for dismembering a limb from 2 x crippling to, say, 6 x crippling. That would remove much of the basis for the complaint (necks needing 6 x HP to chop off (by taking you to automatic death) looks less extreme if you need 3 x HP to cut off a leg), with 2 x crippling being set at automatically permanently crippled instead of actually removed. It's likely more realistic too. The usual way you lose a limb in combat isn't actual dismemberment, but for it to get so horribly mangled the medics remove the remains that would obviously never heal usefully anyway in order to stop the bleeding or prevent infection.
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Old 10-11-2015, 09:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

Broken sheets of glass have amputated partially or even completely without having fallen enormous distances.

But it is FAR easier to render a limb permanently useless via soft tissue damage than slice through bone for complete amputation.
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

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Broken sheets of glass have amputated partially or even completely without having fallen enormous distances.
I wouldn't be so sure that wasn't massive damage though. The standard 4 mm window glass sheets weigh about 2 pounds per square foot (10 kg per square meter). It doesn't take a very big piece before you have something as heavy as a giant axe or guillotine blade.

People underestimate glass a lot. It's basically a rock. If it wasn't clear people wouldn't be fooled into thinking it was very light, or for that matter very fragile.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

Another thing, now that I'm looking at it, is that the neck already has a 1.5* multiplier for crushing. That means it takes 40 damage, not 60, to dismember (even less with cutting). Considering how hard it is to tear a head off, I would say that's reasonable. I could just have instant decapitation be 3x/4x crippling injury for those that don't need their head to survive.

I'm also considering increasing actual dismemberment from 2x to 3x, but also using cumulative injury so that they still occur.

Last edited by Koningkrush; 10-12-2015 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 10-12-2015, 05:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Damage to rip off limbs/neck.

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
There IS an instant death rule in the Basic Set though, which is just simply "if you're completely incapacitated and take an obviously lethal attack that you can't avoid in any way, you die".

This is great for "regular Joe is stuck in a guillotine" although it gets a little weird for "Joe Super Hero With 200 HP is in a normal guillotine" sort of situations. If the GM and players don't have the same intuition as to how these should work, it can get disappointing.
A guillotine is not an obvioulsy lethal attack against someone with 200HP.
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