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Old 02-11-2019, 12:40 PM   #1
JohnPaulB
 
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Default Cloth under Armor and Capes

Is there now or was there at one time, a sentence about wearing Cloth under metal armor? If so, what benefit did it give?
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Last edited by JohnPaulB; 02-11-2019 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Remove cape question
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:58 PM   #2
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

Not in TFT, except in an Interplay article about heavy winter clothing.

Unless they're magical, in which case the only rules are about the magic enchantment.

(There are rules in GURPS, but GURPS treats armor differently from TFT.)

Personally, I would say they would need to be tailored properly to do that, and then the effect would just be adding everything: hits stopped, weight, and DX penalties.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:19 PM   #3
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

Plate and chain already includes the effect of padding underneath.

I guess you could rule that you could take off the iron (spellcasting!) and be left in just cloth armor.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:39 PM   #4
JohnPaulB
 
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Plate and chain already includes the effect of padding underneath.

I guess you could rule that you could take off the iron (spellcasting!) and be left in just cloth armor.
That was it.
So when you buy plate or chain you get a free cloth armor with it?

If not, do you need to buy cloth separately?

What if you don't wear the cloth underneath?

I vaguely remember this being covered in the forum elsewhere.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:44 PM   #5
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

If you are really into versimilitude, armor should be a lot more protective than it is (though big chopping pole arms should also do more damage...). If you wanted to make a set of house rules to reflect this, you might permit people to layer armor (with the proviso that you can't layer plate on plate, and leather probably also has to be a 'top' layer given that leather armor is stiff). So long as players accept the implications of totaling the DX and possibly weight penalties, I don't think the end result would be very unbalanced. The best armor available might be fine plate over chainmail over cloth, for a total of 10 pts of protection and 8 pt DX penalty. Really, the game should have 10 pts of protection without resorting to magic - that just means you are mostly immune to normal hits with light hand weapons. The best medieval armors were certainly that good.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:45 PM   #6
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPaulB View Post
So when you buy plate or chain you get a free cloth armor with it?
Well you get padding. Not clear whether that's the same as Cloth Armor per se - it probably at least looks different in style.

But probably yes, I'd think.


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Originally Posted by JohnPaulB View Post
If not, do you need to buy cloth separately?
No.


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Originally Posted by JohnPaulB View Post
What if you don't wear the cloth underneath?
Then you start playing GURPS. ;-)

Or your GM makes a ruling. I'd say -1 protection, same DX penalty as for wearing the full suit, and it's dang uncomfortable and starts to chafe and so on.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

Hi, thank you all for helping me figure this out.

So this is what I figured out with your help:
[LIST]Metal armor comes with an underpadding.
  • That underpadding is there for comfort and to pad the blows of hammers and such, thus it helps absorb the impact on metal armor.
  • The underpadding is NOT Cloth Armor. Because if it was, it would add one protection to the metal armor, like a shield adds protection.
  • I would say that you can't put Cloth Armor underneath Metal Armor because it is too bulky to fit the metal armor over.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:46 PM   #8
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

If you're wearing kusari then this is stitched into the cloth so you can't just take off the metal layer.

Going European style gives a separate layer of gambeson.
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Last edited by hcobb; 02-11-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:11 PM   #9
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPaulB View Post
Hi, thank you all for helping me figure this out.

So this is what I figured out with your help:
[LIST]Metal armor comes with an underpadding.
  • That underpadding is there for comfort and to pad the blows of hammers and such, thus it helps absorb the impact on metal armor.
  • The underpadding is NOT Cloth Armor. Because if it was, it would add one protection to the metal armor, like a shield adds protection.
  • I would say that you can't put Cloth Armor underneath Metal Armor because it is too bulky to fit the metal armor over.
That's exactly my understanding. On a side note, I once played Runequest with a fellow who's character was wearing every listed armour type, one on top of the other, because the rules didn't say you couldn't." Apply common sense at all times is the primary rule.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Cloth under Armor and Capes

Well, that might be what the rules imply but it's not particularly realistic. The 'padding' worn under 15th-16th century european plate armor (what we're talking about here) was a thick gambeson and padded trews that would easily be worth 1 point of armor by itself. A well made modern reproduction is an inch thick, dense quilted, with a heavy canvas outer layer. You can drive a sharp point into one and a heavy hacking blow will go through, but they really are effective as-is at stopping most slicing or cutting blows.
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