08-15-2019, 02:17 PM | #21 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
Magic in middle earth games feels to me like a widely debated non problem. The books present you with a variety of different 'takes' on the frequency and distribution of magical (or effectively magical) powers, so a wide range of approaches can result in something that feels canonical. The only place where you need to use some thought is in pruning spell lists so that magical powers have effects in keeping with the setting. I.e., no teleportation; invisibility, lightning and weapon enchantment is fine; etc.
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08-15-2019, 02:23 PM | #22 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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08-15-2019, 04:06 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Jun 2019
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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08-22-2019, 07:55 AM | #24 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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08-30-2019, 12:40 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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Also, it's worth noting that, according to The Silmarillion, the Balrogs were also "fallen" Maia that had sworn allegiance to Morgoth in the first age... So, in short, all your main magic users were one form or another of "angelic beings" (either still working for the Lords of the West, or who had betrayed them at one time or another and were thus "fallen" but still retaining their powers to one degree or another -- see Morgoth, q.v.), and the only other folks who showed much in the way of aptitude for that sort of thing were all either certain selected Elves (who had either lived in the Blessed Realm -- Galadriel -- during the time of the two trees or were themselves descended from a Maia via Thingol and Melian -- Elrond), and full-blooded Numenoreans (all of whom that are mentioned in the books are ALSO descended from Thingol and Melian via Luthien and Beren). The sole exception is "The Mouth of Sauron," but even he is described as a "renegade Numenorean" whose antecedents are never described, so it's entirely possible he was also descended from Luthien and Beren -- and that adds an even more piquant and evil twist to Sauron's successful corruption of him, doesn't it? ;-) The only other uses of "magic" I can recall in the books either involved some mortal using a magic item (Denethor using the Palantir, for example), or were called "magic" by the Hobbits, but really were just clever uses of mundane talents. So, what does all that mean? If you want to restrict magic use in your game -- only people of certain descent can use "magic," with the exception that anyone can use a magic item (at a certain risk), and everything else is pretty much just advanced use of mundane skills and special ingredients. More like Alchemy/Herbology in most cases than anything else. Further, most "artillery" and summoning spells (anything that could directly put hits on the enemy) would be right out, unless you had a specific magic item that allowed them -- with things like Illusions and Images, and other "indirect" things (light, slippery floor, shadow, etc.) being the primary way that a Sorcerer would use to affect things. Anyway, that's my $0.02 on it, for whatever that's worth. All very Conan-esque, really... Last edited by JLV; 08-30-2019 at 12:44 PM. |
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08-31-2019, 04:29 AM | #26 | |
Join Date: Jun 2019
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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Back away in this or a related discussion I mentioned that, in so far as adding "mortal" wizards to a Middle-Earth setting perhaps the White Council's labeling of the entity in Dol Guldur as a "necromancer" might be sufficient precedent. I was uncomfortable suggesting that soon after I'd written it, and you just reminded me why. There are sufficient "angelic beings" in the mythos to account for renegade magic users without a single TFT-style wizard character drawn from the general population in the mix. If Tolkien himself was the GM, I suspect no such player characters would be be allowed.
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"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right." |
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09-06-2019, 08:01 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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I think that pretty much nails it. To Tolkien, magic was definitely something mere mortals weren't supposed to be doing...and if they found a magic item, it almost invariably corrupted them in some way. E.g., the ring's effect on everybody, the Palantir's effect on Denethor -- and use against Pippin, etc. Aragorn could use the Palantir because it was "his birthright" and because the blood of a Maia flowed in his veins... |
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09-07-2019, 06:47 AM | #28 | |
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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And yet, I must clarify an unintended implication here, and help restore Sam's reputation, which has been slandered and ruined in those awful movies. Sam was not corrupted by the ring, his steadfastness and innocence of purpose allowed him to use the ring and remain true. Uniquely even inside Mordor itself. Sam is the moral beacon of the story, even though not the main protagonist: he shows a person fighting and passing through adversity and the temptations of power without losing themselves. #truehero Back to the discussion. :) |
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09-07-2019, 08:38 AM | #29 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
I totally disagree with the 'limited magic' interpretation of middle earth. The books are filled with vast numbers of casual references to magical objects, beings (including people) and acts, and there is a background acceptance in all the characters that this is true. Gandalf is the wizard at the center of your focus, and he's something special, but it is not accurate to say more mundane beings can't perform magic or use magic items without coming to mischief.
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09-07-2019, 10:01 AM | #30 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Middle Earth: Melee (TFT) or Man to Man (GURPS)
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Those magic swords seemed to have no corrupting effects on anyone. Seems to have to do with whether the item was enchanted by well-intended elves, or by Sauron. |
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