Requiring a trigger multiple times?

Pseudonym · 12-31-2015, 08:47 AM

I'm working on converting the most mechanically complex magic from Dark souls to Sorcery, and I have a question about the fair value of this.
http://darksouls.wikidot.com/karmic-justice
This is of course modeled as an affliction that gives (only one's self) an advantage... that is triggered by being hit several times, in fairly short order. All injuries need to occur within a small window of each of the previous attacks, so mostly in consecutive turns, or the same turns; The original specifies a three second window, so I guess you could skip one turn between attacks.

The original spell requires about 5 injuries, but I want to limit it more because 5 injuries in GURPS is a little more severe than 5 injuries in Dark Souls, so I arbitrarily decided about 3 captures the same feeling.

I was thinking since injury as a trigger is considered a very common, dangerous limitation (or 15%), that three injuries might be 100%-(100%-15%)^3 =100% - 61.4% = 38.5%, rounded down to 38%.

Are there any other worked examples of a power requiring multiple triggers, or especially, duplicates of the same trigger? Would it make more sense (it would certainly give a nice rounder number) to just upgrade the rarity of the trigger from Very Common -> Common -> Occasional, which would be worth -45%?

weby · 12-31-2015, 06:25 PM

You could rather make a power powered by absorptive DR, the drain would thus require to be hit fast enough that the power is not drained away between being hit.

lvalero · 01-01-2016, 02:34 AM

This is tricky. Let's suppose, for the sake of the argument that the probability of being hit with a single attack is 50% being all things equal. Sometimes it will be higher and sometimes it will be lower. (In fact, for an heroic adventurer the probability of a single hit should be much lower as most of his opponents will be "minor" ones)

With this assumption, the probability of being hit 3 times in a row is 13%. If it were an accesibility limitation it would be of -35%. If it is a trigger I suppose it qualifies as an "Ocassional Trigger" -30% plus Dangerous x1.5 for a total of 45%.

The problem here is that the hero can "force the probability" by not dodging, by moving into battles with many enemies at the same time, etc. So, instead being a "Ocassional trigger" I think it should be considered between "Common" (20%) and "Ocassional" (30%). For example 25% times 1.5 = 38%

**EDIT**

The more I think about the "Trigger" built, the more I think my own calculations are flawed. I will try to explain it.

"Trigger" limitation supposes that the user actively seeks to activate the trigger. For example, if the trigger is a drug, the costs means that the user needs to seek it and consume it. The "probability" of the trigger is about finding the drug when you look for it.

The probability of finding being hit 3 times is as common of finding being hit 1 time, *if you actively seek it*. You only need to open your guard!

This is not the same as in a PC game, as your character is normally always parrying and dodging. But in a RPG the PC can activate the trigger very easily, if he wants.

So. I would rule that being hit once is very common (especially in a DF world) and being hit 3 times is only "Common" for a total of -20 x 1.5= -30%. It seems a fairer number.

ericthered · 01-01-2016, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ransom

On the other hand, most of the time in gurps willingly taking 3 hits in a row without defending is a death sentence.

Mostly true. If you count DR reducing damage to 0 as a 'hit', it may be more doable though. Or if you have some crazy "can't touch me" advantage like injury tolerance, extreme regeneration, or the like.

Pseudonym · 01-02-2016, 10:03 AM

I agree the ability is mostly rendered trivial and useless in GURPS mechanics, but hey, who doesn't like trivia?

I decided to go with calling it an occasional trigger, just to keep the math simple.

Brainstorming a few situations where it might be useful:
1) swarms like hornets that can get free hits after working through armor. This is one especially good case because it's an area of effect attack against a diffuse target
2) potentially, self inflicted wounds could work, though it would probably take some will checks to willingly hurt yourself and potentially reaction rolls from anyone who thinks you are psyching out on a battlefield... or with a very nice GM, maybe even a fright check from an enemy.

12-31-2015, 08:47 AM	#1
Pseudonym Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Requiring a trigger multiple times? I'm working on converting the most mechanically complex magic from Dark souls to Sorcery, and I have a question about the fair value of this. http://darksouls.wikidot.com/karmic-justice This is of course modeled as an affliction that gives (only one's self) an advantage... that is triggered by being hit several times, in fairly short order. All injuries need to occur within a small window of each of the previous attacks, so mostly in consecutive turns, or the same turns; The original specifies a three second window, so I guess you could skip one turn between attacks. The original spell requires about 5 injuries, but I want to limit it more because 5 injuries in GURPS is a little more severe than 5 injuries in Dark Souls, so I arbitrarily decided about 3 captures the same feeling. I was thinking since injury as a trigger is considered a very common, dangerous limitation (or 15%), that three injuries might be 100%-(100%-15%)^3 =100% - 61.4% = 38.5%, rounded down to 38%. Are there any other worked examples of a power requiring multiple triggers, or especially, duplicates of the same trigger? Would it make more sense (it would certainly give a nice rounder number) to just upgrade the rarity of the trigger from Very Common -> Common -> Occasional, which would be worth -45%? __________________ Blog Running Games on Tuesday (online). Playing Sunday.

12-31-2015, 06:25 PM	#2
weby Join Date: Oct 2008	Re: Requiring a trigger multiple times? You could rather make a power powered by absorptive DR, the drain would thus require to be hit fast enough that the power is not drained away between being hit. __________________ -- GURPS spaceship unofficial errata and thoughts: https://gsuc.roto.nu/

01-01-2016, 02:34 AM	#3
lvalero Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Madrid, Spain	Re: Requiring a trigger multiple times? This is tricky. Let's suppose, for the sake of the argument that the probability of being hit with a single attack is 50% being all things equal. Sometimes it will be higher and sometimes it will be lower. (In fact, for an heroic adventurer the probability of a single hit should be much lower as most of his opponents will be "minor" ones) With this assumption, the probability of being hit 3 times in a row is 13%. If it were an accesibility limitation it would be of -35%. If it is a trigger I suppose it qualifies as an "Ocassional Trigger" -30% plus Dangerous x1.5 for a total of 45%. The problem here is that the hero can "force the probability" by not dodging, by moving into battles with many enemies at the same time, etc. So, instead being a "Ocassional trigger" I think it should be considered between "Common" (20%) and "Ocassional" (30%). For example 25% times 1.5 = 38% EDIT The more I think about the "Trigger" built, the more I think my own calculations are flawed. I will try to explain it. "Trigger" limitation supposes that the user actively seeks to activate the trigger. For example, if the trigger is a drug, the costs means that the user needs to seek it and consume it. The "probability" of the trigger is about finding the drug when you look for it. The probability of finding being hit 3 times is as common of finding being hit 1 time, if you actively seek it. You only need to open your guard! This is not the same as in a PC game, as your character is normally always parrying and dodging. But in a RPG the PC can activate the trigger very easily, if he wants. So. I would rule that being hit once is very common (especially in a DF world) and being hit 3 times is only "Common" for a total of -20 x 1.5= -30%. It seems a fairer number. __________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge" Albert Einstein Last edited by lvalero; 01-01-2016 at 03:12 AM.

01-02-2016, 10:03 AM	#5
Pseudonym Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Re: Requiring a trigger multiple times? I agree the ability is mostly rendered trivial and useless in GURPS mechanics, but hey, who doesn't like trivia? I decided to go with calling it an occasional trigger, just to keep the math simple. Brainstorming a few situations where it might be useful: 1) swarms like hornets that can get free hits after working through armor. This is one especially good case because it's an area of effect attack against a diffuse target 2) potentially, self inflicted wounds could work, though it would probably take some will checks to willingly hurt yourself and potentially reaction rolls from anyone who thinks you are psyching out on a battlefield... or with a very nice GM, maybe even a fright check from an enemy. __________________ Blog Running Games on Tuesday (online). Playing Sunday.