[Basic/Powers] Low or No Signature And Visible

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Okay. So does that mean that my loud, bright & blatant "Lance-of-Fire" Innate Attack is entitled to a Visible Limitation?

If it's even MORE obvious than a gunshot, I'm not sure that's Visible, but it's definitely a Nuisance Effect.
Nuisance Effect gets used on things like Flight, where they're not really separable from the person but they're somehow even more messy than usual - like rocket jets, one of the examples.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Bruno

If it's even MORE obvious than a gunshot, I'm not sure that's Visible, but it's definitely a Nuisance Effect.
Nuisance Effect gets used on things like Flight, where they're not really separable from the person but they're somehow even more messy than usual - like rocket jets, one of the examples.

That makes sense. Thanks.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by weby

According to the basic set only Attacks have signature. But powers extends that on page 163.

It says that any effect that is not completely passive or based on a mental-
influence advantage is "visible" to some human sense if it does not have no signature.

Thus the DR abilities that are triggerable are apparently visible unless no signature.

Thus DR is 5 points/level and undetectable apparently.

DR(cost FP) is 4.75 points/level and detectable by something. So to get a cost FP+undetactable you need the no signature for a total cost of 5.75/point...

The second costs more points because it ia obviously more powerful *roll eyes*

Apparently you should really think twice about it if your GM decides to let you buy Switchable to your existing DR in play.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by PK

For attacks, a good general rule is that any advantage which uses the attack/defense roll mechanic is always obvious by default (even if you change this by adding Malediction), while an advantage which uses a Quick Contest is inobvious by default. I expound on this a bit in GURPS Thaumatology: Sorcery.



Yes, and while I stand by it, part of me wishes I'd taken a less contentious approach.

First, it's important to note that attacks are not the only thing that can be obvious. Passive abilities can definitely be obvious; consider Extra Arms for one easy example. No Signature is not only used to remove an attack's report, but also to do things like making such passive advantages invisible or unnoticeable. To continue the example, Kromm has suggested "Extra Arm 1 (No Signature; Weapon Mount)" as a way to simulate a cinematic warrior's ability to hold a ready shield while still retaining full use of that arm.

So the question becomes, is Damage Resistance obvious? And I'd say that past a certain point, the realistic answer is clearly "yes." Someone with unmodified DR 6 has the equivalent of a hard, chitinous shell; their skin can repel small-arms fire and any hand-to-hand attack is likely to injure the person attempting it. (The sole exception to this seems to be the supers genre, which is its own weird and wonky thing.)

Thus, since Monster Hunters places such a high priority on stealth and fitting in, I felt that it was appropriate to take a realistically austere approach to DR and consider it to be visible. To my eye, in such a setting, humans can only have DR with Tough Skin without looking like freaks, and only a few levels at that:

DR 1 (Tough Skin): "She's got that leathered, biker skin. I guess she tans a lot."

DR 2 (Tough Skin): "Man, he looks like you could break a bottle over his head and he'd just glare at you."

DR 3+ (Tough Skin) or DR 1+ without it: "What the hell are you?"

Hopefully this makes sense. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to associate DR exclusively with superheroes and complained that GURPS Supers took a different approach. I don't see any issue there; we're talking about two unrelated genres with radically different approaches to the whole "secret identity" thing. Yet this seems to really bother some people. So while I still stand by it, in retrospect I would have taken a different approach (by bundling a UB into the cost of DR) simply to avoid that outcry.

I hope this makes sense.

I think this is an troublesome inconsistency that you should actually fix.

[Zeta Blaze]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Wouldn't appearing unusual as a result of DR be represented by unusual appearance disadvantages though? Perhaps make them mandatory to buy higher DRs (offsetting the cost, or maybe making a 'Link' between them? use them like a limitation on the advantage?) unless the DR is unapparent?

Abe Sapien comes to mind, he has both Amphibious and DR 1 but his appearance is more due to buying both 'Ugly' and 'Unusual Appearance' disadvantages, even though we might think that his 2 advantages would by necessity cause strange appearance.

It is true that peoples reactions to his appearance are principally based on other traits but Abe's appearance belies a subtle grace and clearly advertises that he is amphibious. Anyone could tell by looking he probably breaths water and swims like a fish but can still walk on land that's what not buying no or low signature gets you. In Abe's case his normal signature level on amphibious is the justification for the social disadvantages based on his appearance.