Rolling for unconsciousness

[Dalin]

My players and I found ourselves confused during last night's game by the unconsciousness rules. According to Exploits, p. 59, when you are at zero HP or less, "you must roll vs. HT every turn (including the one on which you were injured), at -1 per full multiple of HP below zero. Success lets you act normally until next turn. Failure means you fall unconscious."

So if my character is knocked to zero HP, do I roll right then? Or do I roll whenever my turn begins next in the action sequence? If the former, does this effectively mean that I need to make two successful rolls before I can take my first action after being hit? Based on the wording above and on the play example on p. 104 where the vampire doesn't immediately roll for unconsciousness, I think you don't roll until the beginning of your next turn. (For those with the full GURPS rules, this also matches the wording of the rules and the injury example on B419.)

After searching the forums, however, I was thrown off by this 2011 Kromm post.

Since the DFRPG rules were written after that post, I'll stick with my above interpretation for now, but I was curious if other people do it differently.

Other than that minor confusion, it was an outstanding session that highlighted the many layers of fun embedded in DFRPG. There was a great battle with plenty of tactical complexity, an extended intra-party conflict driven by competing disadvantages and quirks (but held in check by the required Sense of Duty: Adventuring Companions), and a glorious finale where the party held off an encroaching undead horde while the cleric completed an exorcism, beating the necromantic curse by the narrowest margin.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Dalin

So if my character is knocked to zero HP, do I roll right then?

Yes.

... do I roll whenever my turn begins next in the action sequence?

Yes as well.

If the former, does this effectively mean that I need to make two successful rolls before I can take my first action after being hit?

Yes as well.

Based on the wording above and on the play example on p. 104 where the vampire doesn't immediately roll for unconsciousness, I think you don't roll until the beginning of your next turn.

The wording what states: "including the one on which you were injured"?

(For those with the full GURPS rules, this also matches the wording of the rules and the injury example on B419.)

Right because it was copied over verbatim. Unchanged. As in Kromm's clarifying statement in 2011 wasn't accounted for in copying over the rules from Basic.



As for the vampire fight, I have no idea. You can always PM Kromm, he's good about popping in to clarify stuff.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Right because it was copied over verbatim. Unchanged. As in Kromm's clarifying statement in 2011 wasn't accounted for in copying over the rules from Basic.

I'm befuddled. The rule in Basic (B419) is crystal clear that you don't roll immediately (key phrase in bold):

Originally Posted by B419

0 HP or less – You are in immediate danger of collapse. In addition to the above effects, make a HT roll at the start of your next turn, at -1 per full multiple of HP below zero.

There's no way to interpret that to mean that you roll immediately. So I wasn't sure if DFRPG was changing the rule or just stating it less clearly.

The phrase that you highlighted from Exploits, p. 59, "including the one on which you were injured," is a bit ambiguous to me. I interpreted it to simply mean "on your first opportunity to act." According to Exploits, p. 28, "Each participant’s turn starts when that fighter chooses a maneuver (see below) and ends when that maneuver’s movement and dice rolls are resolved." This doesn't really help since it implies that you are in some sort of between-turn limbo when you get hit. But, I have always defined a turn as starting when you choose a maneuver and ending when you choose your next maneuver. By that definition, the phrase clearly indicates that you roll when you get hit and then again before your next action.

So, I reluctantly agree with you. My reluctance is only because it feels wrong to me to roll twice before your first action.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Dalin

There's no way to interpret that to mean that you roll immediately. So I wasn't sure if DFRPG was changing the rule or just stating it less clearly.

No you're right. I kept reading Exploits and for some reason thought I was reading Basic. Ignore that particular bit of nonsense

This doesn't really help since it implies that you are in some sort of between-turn limbo when you get hit. But, I have always defined a turn as starting when you choose a maneuver and ending when you choose your next maneuver.

Ditto, but that isn't GURPS Raw.

By that definition, the phrase clearly indicates that you roll when you get hit and then again before your next action.

Yeah... that feels like double dipping to me. I prefer more 'cinematic actiony' games, so I might have to house rule this.

But as I've already house ruled the HT roll to happen at the end of the action anyway... (to allow severely wounded Characters to get those last actions in)

So, I reluctantly agree with you. My reluctance is only because it feels wrong to me to roll twice before your first action.

I agree. I recommend PMing Kromm and seeing what his intentions were regarding this.

I bet this is his way of updating the injury rules on the sly. ;)
But if so, he should have used the wording from that Krommquote as it's very clear.

[Dalin]

The oracle has spoken (and granted permission to share his wisdom here):

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yes.

Yes. Once for being badly hurt, once to hang on afterward. You can avoid the second one with Do Nothing, however, which lets you hang in there until a healer can fix you.

[ArchonShiva]

And in DFRPG specifically, if you have decent IQ or Born War Leader or similar, there are useful Do Nothing actions.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

And in DFRPG specifically, if you have decent IQ or Born War Leader or similar, there are useful Do Nothing actions.

Though that's DF being explicitly generous; properly speaking all of the 'onwards to victory' actions should be Concentrate maneuvers.