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Old 08-06-2017, 05:18 PM   #31
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Default Re: GURPS Vehicles: Steampunk Conveyances

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Thanks - I keep forgetting to mention those, but yes. The first torpedo combat rules in 4e, and I think possibly in GURPS. Which is a little surprising, really.
Also, a fine little box on bombing. This is a nice work, well done.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:29 PM   #32
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I think that advanced, fast, fairly stealthy torpedoes probably work fine as some version of a standard GURPS ranged attack. It's the ones that are so slow and visible that they can be evaded or outrun that require a moment's thought.
I'd say the big thing is that Homing torpedoes are almost trivial (since we have fairly okay general Homing rules) but unguided ones are remarkably tricky.

There was one point in the rules I'm not finding entirely clear. The operator can attempt a penalized dodge if the torpedo is not pinpointed. Do they get that, or no defense at all, if the torpedo attack is not actually observed in the first place? (Under the right circumstances a ship could anticipate a torpedo attack without needing to see an attacker at all...)
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:52 PM   #33
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Default Re: GURPS Vehicles: Steampunk Conveyances

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There was one point in the rules I'm not finding entirely clear. The operator can attempt a penalized dodge if the torpedo is not pinpointed. Do they get that, or no defense at all, if the torpedo attack is not actually observed in the first place? (Under the right circumstances a ship could anticipate a torpedo attack without needing to see an attacker at all...)
I took it as obvious that a target wouldn't be dodging if it didn't know it was being attacked. Yes, I suppose that there are hypothetical situations in which a ship might believe it was possibly under attack, and dodge accordingly, but really, there, "deduces" is just an extreme case of "observes".

(And to anticipate the Munchkin's Guide to Shiphandling - yes, you could sail a ship like it was dodging all the time. It just wouldn't go anywhere useful, and the master would have a good chance of being arrested for the marine version of Drunk in Charge.)
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:59 PM   #34
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I don't have it yet, so maybe this is the off-base a bit, but is this maybe a situation where the random-walk rule for long range sniper attacks might be adaptable?
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:59 PM   #35
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I took it as obvious that a target wouldn't be dodging if it didn't know it was being attacked. Yes, I suppose that there are hypothetical situations in which a ship might believe it was possibly under attack, and dodge accordingly, but really, there, "deduces" is just an extreme case of "observes".
Well, for instance, if you know there's a hostile submarine nearby, but can't see it, you have good reason to expect you might be torpedoed but are likely not to be able to see them launch anything.
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(And to anticipate the Munchkin's Guide to Shiphandling - yes, you could sail a ship like it was dodging all the time. It just wouldn't go anywhere useful, and the master would have a good chance of being arrested for the marine version of Drunk in Charge.)
Aside from looking like an idiot, you'd be at best zig-zagging across much more ocean than you actually wanted to cross and most likely running your engines at flank speed - which means wasting an enormous amount of fuel and putting lots of unwanted wear on your machinery.
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:10 PM   #36
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I don't have it yet, so maybe this is the off-base a bit, but is this maybe a situation where the random-walk rule for long range sniper attacks might be adaptable?
The rule uses standard range penalties, so in a sense it might look that way...but it would probably need significant revision. A torpedo run can be over a minute, and it shouldn't be effectively impossible to score hits at that distance.

I think it's fair to say that the TS flight time penalty rules are dependent on assumptions about the mobility relative to size of targets, and is calibrated primarily for humans rather than ships. Tacking on a similar but milder penalty perhaps? (On the other hand, I'd seriously consider taking the torpedo evasion rules and adapting them to other situations of projectiles that the target can see coming at them. That seems a very useful possibility!)

If you do add penalties of that sort to torpedo attacks you might also need some way of modeling firing spreads of torpedoes to increase chances of a hit and/or hinder evasion attempts.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:22 PM   #37
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Default Re: GURPS Vehicles: Steampunk Conveyances

Is the following from pg. 18 of GURPS Vehicles: Steampunk Conveyances correct?

18” Mark VIII: This has an option of two settings; Move 20,
Range 2,500, or Move 16, Range 4,000.


Multi speed torpedoes tend lose range when they go faster.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:25 PM   #38
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Default Re: GURPS Vehicles: Steampunk Conveyances

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
There was one point in the rules I'm not finding entirely clear. The operator can attempt a penalized dodge if the torpedo is not pinpointed. Do they get that, or no defense at all, if the torpedo attack is not actually observed in the first place? (Under the right circumstances a ship could anticipate a torpedo attack without needing to see an attacker at all...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
I took it as obvious that a target wouldn't be dodging if it didn't know it was being attacked. Yes, I suppose that there are hypothetical situations in which a ship might believe it was possibly under attack, and dodge accordingly, but really, there, "deduces" is just an extreme case of "observes".

(And to anticipate the Munchkin's Guide to Shiphandling - yes, you could sail a ship like it was dodging all the time. It just wouldn't go anywhere useful, and the master would have a good chance of being arrested for the marine version of Drunk in Charge.)
I would note that this why ships were expected to zig-zag in WWII.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:49 PM   #39
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Is the following from pg. 18 of GURPS Vehicles: Steampunk Conveyances correct?

18” Mark VIII: This has an option of two settings; Move 20,
Range 2,500, or Move 16, Range 4,000.


Multi speed torpedoes tend lose range when they go faster.
20 is more than 16, and 2500 is less than 4000, so....
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Last edited by Ulzgoroth; 08-07-2017 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Dropped a digit!
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:39 PM   #40
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Default Re: GURPS Vehicles: Steampunk Conveyances

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20 is more than 6, and 2500 is less than 4000, so....
Um... Right. Somehow I read that backwards.....

{Hangs head in shame.}
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