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Old 07-28-2013, 03:11 AM   #11
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

Transient effects do not follow into death. Unless the Nuetralize or Affliction invoke permanent duration, they don't prevent Unkillable 2/3. The Unkillable 1 guy, however, is quite dead.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Transient effects do not follow into death. Unless the Nuetralize or Affliction invoke permanent duration, they don't prevent Unkillable 2/3. The Unkillable 1 guy, however, is quite dead.
In the absence of a clear RAW answer or an official verdict, I'm going with this interpretation. Makes the most sense to me.
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Transient effects do not follow into death. Unless the Nuetralize or Affliction invoke permanent duration, they don't prevent Unkillable 2/3. The Unkillable 1 guy, however, is quite dead.
Except they did prevent the special effects of Unkillable 2/3 from occurring, meaning that they too are still dead. Both abilities do something important at the point of normal death which circumvent death from happening, without the ability this special effect doesn't happen which allows them to die like anyone else.

This is why sometimes Extra Life is useful, although someone with Extra Life (Mana Dependant, -10%) who dies in an ordinary no-mana zone would be out of luck. Dragging their corpse out of that area should in theory restore them back to life however.

Ultimately though, this is what the GM is for, making an interpretation of the rules when there's no clear answer. So it comes down to what they decide happens where - so try to bribe them with snack food till they see things your way.
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

I look at it the same way I would afflicting someone with Fragile (Unnatural), which auto-kills you at any negative HP level. If you get afflicted with that, and you're under the HP total, you die, and you don't come back when the affliction ends.

But yes, this can also be solved in a world-building scenario, but I'd say the default is that you are dead and do not come back to life.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

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Originally Posted by PseudoFenton View Post
Except they did prevent the special effects of Unkillable 2/3 from occurring, meaning that they too are still dead. Both abilities do something important at the point of normal death which circumvent death from happening, without the ability this special effect doesn't happen which allows them to die like anyone else.
I think it's open to question whether an Unkillable 3 character really had their death circumvented as opposed to just coming back from it. Of course with Unkillable 3 characters, the body is irrelevant.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

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I look at it the same way I would afflicting someone with Fragile (Unnatural), which auto-kills you at any negative HP level. If you get afflicted with that, and you're under the HP total, you die, and you don't come back when the affliction ends.
This raises the question of how you build a kind of UK that does bring the person back after it is no longer disrupted. Time-Spanning?
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

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This raises the question of how you build a kind of UK that does bring the person back after it is no longer disrupted. Time-Spanning?
Sunrunners_Fire suggested that. Makes sense to me.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

For the record, I fall firmly on the side of Extra Life is slightly better than Unkillable in this regard, but that's as much for the "I hate watching 25 points evaporate off of someones character sheet" issue as any. If you're going to suffer permanent point damage, you might as well get all the bang for your buck.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

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I think it's open to question whether an Unkillable 3 character really had their death circumvented as opposed to just coming back from it. Of course with Unkillable 3 characters, the body is irrelevant.
Except Unkillable 3 states "at -10xHP, you become a ghost, an energy pattern, or some other incorporeal form that cannot be contained or damaged through normal means." - that is to say, it does not say "whilst dead, your ghost/energy pattern etc can reform".

Hitting -10xHP triggers an event which avoids ordinary death from occurring and just takes you out of the game for a while in a state that can't be tampered with. If when you hit -10xHP (or just die) and you don't have this advantage currently, well this affect doesn't occur you become a regular old dead person, who may have a ghost - but not the sort that puts its body back together so it can return to life.

It's like if you had an advantage with a trigger effect that gave you +10ST, when the advantage is currently negated (due to its power source being blocked/the advantage being removed via affliction etc) it doesn't matter how many times you're exposed to that trigger - you don't have the advantage so you don't gain the ST.
Even after your power comes back, you still don't get the ST, you must be exposed to that trigger whilst you have the advantage to gain the affect.

Death (or the -10xHP limit after ignoring death checks all the way up to it) is the trigger event for Unkillable, reaching it without having Unkillable active does the same thing as it would ordinarily do - and gaining the advantage later does no good as the trigger event has already passed. In short, this is a valid way to "kill for good" a monster with this trait (in addition to any Achilles’ Heels they may have).
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:53 AM   #20
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Default Re: When Unkillable Shuts Down...

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Except Unkillable 3 states "at -10xHP, you become a ghost, an energy pattern, or some other incorporeal form that cannot be contained or damaged through normal means." - that is to say, it does not say "whilst dead, your ghost/energy pattern etc can reform".

Hitting -10xHP triggers an event which avoids ordinary death from occurring and just takes you out of the game for a while in a state that can't be tampered with. If when you hit -10xHP (or just die) and you don't have this advantage currently, well this affect doesn't occur you become a regular old dead person, who may have a ghost - but not the sort that puts its body back together so it can return to life.
Apparently dead people still have privileged status as characters who can be the subject of effects, per the ruling in re Resurrection Lite by RPK himself.
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