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Old 02-02-2010, 09:25 AM   #31
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Default Re: Modern Mythology

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Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
Myth reflect the societies in which they occure. Viking myths reflected Viking values and life styles, as did pretty much every other society. This leads me to wonder what sort of myths, gods, monsters and heros would arrise in modern society (...)
I don't share entirely that definition of myth, but anyway, following your point of view, societies do believe in their "myths" -and this is entirely applicable to the modern globalized society: most people don't recognize the "myths" they are immersed in and instead thinks about them as truths and hard facts. Thus, claiming this or that as a "contemporary 'myth'" could be highly controversial.

This said, I think it doesn't involves real danger to say the Cthulhu Mythos and its variations are, in more than a sense, very reflective of the modern world, since they are openly acknowledged as fiction for most people.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:14 AM   #32
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Default Re: Modern Mythology

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If Jurgen's still around, that link might be useful for the Arcana wiki. I'll see if I can find my login, unless someone else gets to it first.
That article was one of the very first things he linked to, IIRC.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:59 AM   #33
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Default Re: Modern Mythology

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societies do believe in their "myths" -and this is entirely applicable to the modern globalized society: most people don't recognize the "myths" they are immersed in and instead thinks about them as truths and hard facts. Thus, claiming this or that as a "contemporary 'myth'" could be highly controversial.
A safer definition of myth might be "interactions between human, para-human and non-human entities". Which some anthropologists use at least, this differs from "legend" in the sense that myths imply exchanges between mundane and meta-physical/cosmic/divine, etc... entities.

For example, "there are giant albino alligators in the sweres" is an urban legend. "Lighting a candle to St. Whatsisname grants you luck in bets" is a myth. Mythology in a more traditional sense is about all that, but some people like to distinguish.

In any case, yes, to people who believe in the myths they are not untrue. Some myths are the best reasonable explanation, or come from trustworthy sources, traditions and are often confirmed by people's perception of the world. Some are constantly re-affirmed by ritual, or every day life. You can open a whole can of worms just by using the word "myth" and the words "Adam and Eve" in the same sentence. However, by the definition that it is a story about the interaction of humans and non-human (divine, animal) entities... it's a myth, you don't have to get into the merit of whether it's true or not.
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:29 PM   #34
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One approach, which has the benefit of abstract simplicity, is to assume that if it's on Snopes, it's a modern myth. Whether it's listed as true, false, or other is irrelevant. Spend a bit looking at random entries, and see if you find some interesting ones :J
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:12 AM   #35
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Default Re: Modern Mythology

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La Llorona is Mexican IIRC, and used to be variously a hungry ghost who died giving birth or a woman who murdered her own child .
Growing up in New Mexico I understood La Llorona to be a New Mexican woman who drowned her own child in the Rio Grande. She haunts the river looking for other children to kill. I don't think any other ghost or ghost story got the kids to hush up and speak with that serious scared tone of voice like she did.
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Old 02-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #36
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"Patriot" radio and the patriot community maintain a number of modern myths, everything from '9/11 truth' theories, to 'chemtrails', to 'vaccines cause autism'. Some of them have a grain of truth to them, but they've been passed from to ear to ear to ear enought that they've reached a mythic form.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:58 PM   #37
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I base my concepts of mythology on the work by Joseph Campbell (full disclosure). Basically, all the best myths, those most powerful or emotionally evocative, have deeps roots in the human psyche. They act as projections of subconscious hopes and fears of which we may not have conscious awareness. They move us, because they speak to us, and we're not even sure why.

When you look for modern mythologies, look for the stories that trigger almost involuntary delight, fascination or terror. Those stories have managed to slip through the filters of our rational mind, and touch us on a deeply emotional level.

On the "bright side" of modern U.S. mythology, we have "rewards for hard work and thrift." This is the one that says if a person works hard, gets a good education, exercises self-discipline and engages in smart planning, he or she will earn all the good things people are supposed to have (and to want), this country: two pets, two cars, two kids, a house in the 'burbs and a loving spouse.

The fact that this frequently actually happens doesn't change its mythical nature. This "American Dream" speaks to people, here (and elsewhere) on a fundamental level. It's the U.S. version of an ancient idea, that of "just rewards for a life lived properly." That fact that the American Dream is so often achievable, here, says a lot about the strength of our society and the rewards it offers.

Moreover, the fact that it is so often achievable reinforces its emotional appeal. That ideal is so strong, amongst so many Americans, that it can create problems. The inability to achieve the American Dream is considered a sign of deep personal failure of the individual -- not shortcomings in our society.

Additionally, those individuals who reject the ideal sometimes wind up targets of anger, dislike and distrust. So many Americans internalize the ideal so deeply, and integrate it so strongly into their image of who they should be and what they should want, that any rejection of it threatens their image of themselves. The choice of an alternative is often perceived as more than just an individual's choice to live his or her own life on his or her own terms, and instead gets interpreted as a "rejection of America."

As I observe modern life, I think the single most profound influence on the human psyche is the ongoing destruction of the barriers that kept people from knowing about how each other live and think. Consider that, for a moment. For most of human existence, people spent their lives surrounded by people who differed from them only peripherally. Almost everyone more or less grew up in similiar environments, did similar work and wanted similar rewards.

That's because economics is the single largest determinant of the culture of an area. Not the only factor (by any means), but the single most significant one. How one earns a living defines one's perceptions of how to live, and thus what life should be -- up to and including what sort of spouse to seek, how many children to have, the structure of the family environment (nuclear or extended?), and even where and how to build a home.

But, look at our world, today. People who live in rural areas are keenly aware of the amenities -- and earnings -- available in the cities. That has profoundly impacted rural culture. For the most part, at least two-thirds of the children who grow up in rural America leave their home towns, and never return except to visit. Any child who has any prospects, whatsoever, gets a job in an urban or suburban area, which means most rural communities struggle to sustain themselves with the bottom third of their high school classes.

Moreover, people in even the remotest parts of the world have exposure to (sometimes) entertaining offerings from other cultures. They're also keenly aware of how lifestyles in one part of the world can vastly differ from their own. This can trigger a sense of relative deprivation so strong that it results in social upheaval and political violence. Expressions of this resentment then get transmitted to the more affluent areas, which in turn triggers deep feelings of unease amongst those who fear the loss of what they've worked to achieve. "How can they hate us so much?"

Even within the same country, variations in sub-cultures can trigger exactly the same distress. Think about that. In the past, if a fashion/music trend appeared in one area of the country, it remained localized. Now, even the kids in Podunkville know what a "Goth" looks like, what music Goths listen to, and the sorts of clothes they wear. Those kids also know "Gangsta Rap", "Grunge" and "Euro Techno." :)

On a more serious note, older folks who lived their lives according to their local understanding of the "American Dream," now have no choice but to recognize that many of their fellows sharply criticize their lifestyle, the validity of which it never, ever occurred to them to question. I run into that, in Colorado, because this rather young city has started to gentrify, fairly recently. More traditional suburban-dwellers have difficulty grasping why anybody would want to move downtown, and urbanites may as well be space aliens, to those who live 40 miles out on the prairie.

However, the fact that so many of the rural farm folk, here, see their children flee to the cities, and never return for long, results in deep and ongoing anxiety. That, in turn, has triggered a bunch of local myths -- here's one of the most popular:

http://www.westword.com/2007-08-30/n...-take-off/full

That's the localized version of a myth that appears more broadly, in the United States:

http://www.jeremiahproject.com/newwo...nworder05.html

That, in turn, is just latest variation of a myth that has existed in this country since the beginning:

http://watch.pair.com/mason.html

The Masonic Conspiracy myth and the New World Order myth are equally irrational. Those who take the time to study readily available historical facts dismiss the Masonic Conspiracy as laughable. Those who observe how often the U.N. flounders ineffectively, consider the New World Order myth absolutely absurd. However, when it comes to myth (as Campbell noted), what matters is not the historical reality of the story, but why it moves people so deeply that they want to believe.

That leads me back to my thesis. People throughout the world, but particularly in the post-industrial West, have so much information so readily available, that they've begun to grasp the intricate complexity of the international political/economic/social system in which they find themselves enmeshed. Decisions made in Jurgen's hometown can have profound influence in Kansas City, Missouri, or even Julesburg, Colorado.

The fact that sources of readily available information have increasingly permeated our society has made more and more people aware of the interconnected nature of the modern world -- and while that thrills a lot of us, it terrifies many.

And, what's more terrifying? The notion that secret masterminds have implemented a carefully conceived plan to take over the world? Or that someone such as Jurgen could make a decision that profoundly affects a farmer or small business owner in Julesburg, for reasons that seem good in Germany, but which have ramifications that nobody could even predict, much less control? Can people on the other side of the planet make choices and take actions that result in the destruction of the livelihood of someone in Walsenburg, Colorado, and never even know that could've happened?

Chaos. Disorder. Utter lack of control of your own life. What you do, the opportunities you have, the way you live, can change in an eye-blink, by actions the impact of which are completely unpredictable to those who took them.

It's more comforting to believe in secret masters against which we can fight, than to accept the knowledge that no matter how hard you work, how much education you've attained, how disciplined you are, somebody on the other side of the planet can invent a device or a system that renders you obsolete.

That's what conspiracy stories tell us about the minds of those who believe in them, and that's why they're such important (though frequently infuriating) myths.

Bill's comment about Transhumanism was dead-on, for the same reason. It's the latest iteration of the myth, "Science for a Better Life." The fact that this statement has been so often true, doesn't make the belief any less "mythical." It simply adds power to the myth.

Transhumanism posits that science will not just end disease, it could actually lead to life everlasting. That's a powerful lure, and the fact that it's merely an extension of the fact that science has improved (and increased lifespans) only adds to its emotional appeal. I think it likely that the appeal of Transhuman will only spread, as the old myths seem less and less relevant. I also know that not everybody thinks that's a good thing:

http://reason.com/archives/2004/08/2...e-most-dangero

Conversely, the window into the minds of the kids who tell the "Blue Lady" tales should utterly devastate us. For children to find such fascination with this myth, and to rely on it to make sense of the conditions in which they find themselves, helps to illustrate the nature of their experiences.

These kids don't have horrible lives. They have lives of horror. Here. In the United States. The home and hearth of the American Dream. A dream they cannot even begin to imagine, much less ever achieve.

Those are the stories to seek, when we look for modern myths. Those that delight us, or horrify us, and always move us, for reasons we sometimes can't even explain.

The power of myth lies in the truths told about the internal world of those who create or believe them, not whether they accurately describe external reality.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:17 PM   #38
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Depends on what exactly you mean by modern. Paul Bunyon, John Henry, Johnny Appleseed, and even George Washington have been semi-recent myths surrounding them.

George Washington probably is very similar to how a lot of Greek and Roman hero myths worked. Take a great leader/general who has a lot of war stories and victory, then embellish their powers, maybe add something of divine power/inspiration to it and you have a myth. With Washington you have myths about him being extremely honest about a cherry tree, and some about him going into battle and leaving unscathed except for all the bullet holes in his coat.

Comic book super heroes fill much the same void as the Greek heroes and Norse gods, though with less divine reverence. They are pop-culture stories about (what near are) effectively super-humans. The stories keep the same character, but are retold again and again by many different people, often with varying powers and weakness (look at how widely someone like Superman has varied in power based on author, originally could just jump and run real fast, then could fly, then the whole "pre-crisis" ridiculous thing before being toned down after dying from the next writer).

I may bring upon some disdain, but the Abrahamic religions are much the same way. They have heroes with faults (Sampson who lost his divine strength when he lost his hair), King David, Djinn (at least with Islam), Jesus and his prophets. Kingdoms and people with extraordinary capabilities that a vast amount of the populous believes is true, though the historical accuracy is greatly debatable. I don't mean to start any sort of argument or debate on this, I'll remove it if it becomes an issue, but it is very similar in theme and effect to most other ancient religions that have not survived.
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:18 PM   #39
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Default Re: Modern Mythology

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Bill's comment about Transhumanism was dead-on, for the same reason. It's the latest iteration of the myth, "Science for a Better Life." The fact that this statement has been so often true, doesn't make the belief any less "mythical." It simply adds power to the myth.

Transhumanism posits that science will not just end disease, it could actually lead to life everlasting. That's a powerful lure, and the fact that it's merely an extension of the fact that science has improved (and increased lifespans) only adds to its emotional appeal. I think it likely that the appeal of Transhuman will only spread, as the old myths seem less and less relevant. I also know that not everybody thinks that's a good thing:

http://reason.com/archives/2004/08/2...e-most-dangero
When I looked at that page, the top banner ad had a United Nations flag and the tagline "Become a Leader of Tomorrow"; it was for an online university offering a MA in Diplomacy, with specialties in Conflict Management, Terrorism, or Commerce. :-D
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:47 PM   #40
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Serial killer legends are probably a useful jumping off point - possibly leading to mythagos like the Candyman for RPG purposes.
Relatedly, there are a collection of bandit/folk heroes wandering through the American psyche; I've heard a wide variety of anecdotes and legends about the likes of John Dillinger, Jesse James, Bonnie and Clyde, Butch Cassidy and teh Sundance kid, etc, and there's the related phenomenon of gangster lore: the antics of Bugsy seigel, the cryptic last words of Dutch Shultz, and such like.
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