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Old 06-01-2012, 02:52 PM   #31
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
Remember that fantasy worlds are as vulnerable to urban legends as modern society - probably more so. So everyone could "know" that spells that go wrong summon demons without there being the slightest truth to it.
Correct. Likewise, people can know that it can't happen, even if it does, as long as it doesn't happen too often.

But even in worlds misinformed by genuine superstition, there should realistically be a minority who have real factual knowledge, and who at least make personal decisions based off that knowledge, even if they keep quiet in public for fear of being burned at the stake.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:32 PM   #32
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Actually it does take two. The first time it happens, the populace may assume (or be swayed into assuming - GURPS has a Propaganda skill, after all) that the seemingly nice and thoughtful wizard was really a reckless and anti-social demonologist and that the summoning was deliberate.

It has to happen a second time, within a the most a couple of hundred years, to a different wizard who was also seemingly nice and thoughtful and well-adjusted.
If you have thousands of wizards each casting 8 commercial spells a day every work day...wizards who are incidentally not actually competent to deal with the results because they only know enough to make a living, the demon summonings (or equivalent) will be happening probably every year. Most wizards will never experience them but they'd be a regular town crier headline.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:57 PM   #33
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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If you have thousands of wizards each casting 8 commercial spells a day every work day...wizards who are incidentally not actually competent to deal with the results because they only know enough to make a living, the demon summonings (or equivalent) will be happening probably every year. Most wizards will never experience them but they'd be a regular town crier headline.
True.

That's one argument for having spell levels: The level of the spell cast affects the Fumble Outcome Roll, so that casting low level spells tends to create less painful backfires. Economically useful spells will still tend to be medium-level, though, so they won't be very safe.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:07 PM   #34
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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If you have thousands of wizards each casting 8 commercial spells a day every work day...wizards who are incidentally not actually competent to deal with the results because they only know enough to make a living, the demon summonings (or equivalent) will be happening probably every year. Most wizards will never experience them but they'd be a regular town crier headline.
Maybe. Its' rather campaign dependent. How many of them have Stable Casting or equivalent? If its' learned or can be self-taught, I imagine that any mage interested in commerce would make it a priority to learn (for their own personal survival as demons are no joke) and to teach the technique to those they instruct in magic. (They'd also want Solitary Ceremonial Casting as well.) Say, as part of a magical style taught by the commercially active mage-guilds ...
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:16 PM   #35
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
If you have thousands of wizards each casting 8 commercial spells a day every work day...wizards who are incidentally not actually competent to deal with the results because they only know enough to make a living, the demon summonings (or equivalent) will be happening probably every year. Most wizards will never experience them but they'd be a regular town crier headline.
The same argument would indicate that 1-in-216 airliners suffer catastrophic failures, 1-in-216 nuclear reactors meltdown each month, 1-in-216 space shuttle launches ended in tragedy, 1-in-72 punches in MMA or Boxing strikes result in the catastrophic effects of a roll on the Critical Hit or Miss charts. Critical failure rules are clearly for dramatic results of adventuring uses of skills, not routine Monthly job rolls (and if you note the Job table gives much more manageable results for Criticals).
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:38 PM   #36
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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The same argument would indicate that 1-in-216 airliners suffer catastrophic failures, 1-in-216 nuclear reactors meltdown each month, 1-in-216 space shuttle launches ended in tragedy, 1-in-72 punches in MMA or Boxing strikes result in the catastrophic effects of a roll on the Critical Hit or Miss charts. Critical failure rules are clearly for dramatic results of adventuring uses of skills, not routine Monthly job rolls (and if you note the Job table gives much more manageable results for Criticals).
It's an argument against using a so coarse-grained and so insufficiently curved roll mechanic as 3d6, because it obviously is woefully inadequate for simulation.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:04 PM   #37
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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The same argument would indicate that 1-in-216 airliners suffer catastrophic failures, 1-in-216 nuclear reactors meltdown each month, 1-in-216 space shuttle launches ended in tragedy, 1-in-72 punches in MMA or Boxing strikes result in the catastrophic effects of a roll on the Critical Hit or Miss charts. Critical failure rules are clearly for dramatic results of adventuring uses of skills, not routine Monthly job rolls
While I could certainly decide to make magic spell casting a routine and relatively unhazardous profession, I am under no obligation to do it any more than I'm under an obligation to make barnstorming or professional wrestling as safe as being an accountant. Some jobs are just bloody dangerous. And if I want to make magic a chancy thing that people don't use casually at least without the right perks, then I think I'm consistent with both the rules and typical nonmagitech fantasy universe assumptions. Note that magic has totally different rules for taking extra time than the mundane skills you reference do.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:06 PM   #38
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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It's an argument against using a so coarse-grained and so insufficiently curved roll mechanic as 3d6, because it obviously is woefully inadequate for simulation.
Not that GURPS is trying to be a simulation, mind. GURPS is an action-adventure game with playable levels of reality-checking. Telling a dog that it should be more like a turtle does no favors for anyone involved; the dog, the turtle or the speaker.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:52 PM   #39
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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1-in-216 space shuttle launches ended in tragedy
Two orbiters lost in 135 launches indicates that it really wasn't at a commercial airliner level of reliability.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: Different critical spell failure tables

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While I could certainly decide to make magic spell casting a routine and relatively unhazardous profession,
Sure, but aren't we talking about a situation were it is supposed to be relatively safe profession. If you are complaining that nobody would be a professional enchanter or spell-caster because of the demons then there's a fundamental problem in your reasoning. Settings where every spell is dangerous aren't ones where spell-casting is a mundane job.
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I am under no obligation to do it any more than I'm under an obligation to make barnstorming or professional wrestling as safe as being an accountant.
AFAICT the most common causes of death in pro-wrestling is heart failure, and car accidents, same as the general population. There is no way that pro-wrestling is more dangerous than any other kind of stage combat.
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Some jobs are just bloody dangerous. And if I want to make magic a chancy thing that people don't use casually at least without the right perks, then I think I'm consistent with both the rules and typical nonmagitech fantasy universe assumptions.
Yes, but that wouldn't be a setting with NPC mage's casting dozens of spells a day.
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Note that magic has totally different rules for taking extra time than the mundane skills you reference do.
It does? I did? I referenced job rolls actually. Jobs are all monthly rolls.
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Two orbiters lost in 135 launches indicates that it really wasn't at a commercial airliner level of reliability.
Yes, but manned spacecraft are not at GURPS critical failure levels of failure, either.
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