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Old 08-25-2019, 06:57 PM   #11
Whitewings
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Default Re: Ultra-Tech and Magic

I'm assuming that the granted knowledge is only usable by someone with a suitable level of Magery and whatever prerequisites.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:29 PM   #12
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Ultra-Tech and Magic

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post

Also I never liked the idea of technology and magic being mutually exclusive because the moment you started to really think about it you realized it made no blasted sense. .
I've done a write up for a setting where advanced mechanistic technology and high magic are in opposition. If the mana levels are too high they generate electromagnetic interference and make tightly machined moving parts jam up because of tiny distortions in the metal. Of course since living creatures are relatively resistant due to greater flexibility and ability to shape mana, society turns to more biotechnology.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:40 PM   #13
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I've done a write up for a setting where advanced mechanistic technology and high magic are in opposition. If the mana levels are too high they generate electromagnetic interference and make tightly machined moving parts jam up because of tiny distortions in the metal. Of course since living creatures are relatively resistant due to greater flexibility and ability to shape mana, society turns to more biotechnology.
Seems like it could do terrible things to skeletal or exoskeletal joints too.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:41 PM   #14
clu2415
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Default Re: Ultra-Tech and Magic

Thereís two important questions here: A) is it rules legal? (Seems like the consensus is yes) and B) do you want it to work that way in your game? Sometimes a rules interaction can have interesting in-setting effects and it can be fun to think about a society that develops around that bit of weirdness. Other times, thatís not conducive to the story you want to tell. If thatís so, come up with a justification for why it doesnít work, or just flat-out say that itís too powerful and not going to work at your table.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:52 PM   #15
Whitewings
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Default Re: Ultra-Tech and Magic

I doubt it would be used often, given how expensive Instaskill is, but the setting effects are what interest me most, both positive and negative. Remember that in this setting, magic is an extremely new field: less than 70 years since the first successful casting of a spell. So the idea of "that's not how it's done!" is probably not yet a part of local culture. In this setting, mana is called ki, spells are ki techniques, mages are ki sensitives, and mages who know Shapeshifting are known as ki adepts. Shapeshifting is one of the most advanced spells known, and a mark of mastery. Healer, fire master, communications expert, any second rank ki sensitive with six techniques down will almost certainly learn Shapeshifting.

Last edited by Whitewings; 08-25-2019 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:17 PM   #16
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Ultra-Tech and Magic

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Seems like it could do terrible things to skeletal or exoskeletal joints too.
Not really. Tendons are stretchy so a slight and temporary distortion doesn't make much of a difference and living creatures get resistance rolls. Machines don't.

However what it does do terrible things to is reproductive cells. Basically you need a spell if you don't want a substantial proportion of your offspring to miscarry or be mutants. They'd also have a higher risk of cancer.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 08-25-2019 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:18 PM   #17
Whitewings
 
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Not really. Tendons are stretchy so a slight and temporary distortion doesn't make much of a difference and living creatures get resistance rolls. Machines don't.

However what it does do terrible things to is reproductive cells. Basically you need a spell if you don't want a substantial proportion of your offspring to miscarry or be mutants. They'd also have a higher risk of cancer.
That doesn't actually make sense; very few organic compounds are magnetic to any significant degree, and DNA replication mechanisms are not on the list. You explicitly state that high mana levels generate EM interference.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:41 PM   #18
David Johnston2
 
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That doesn't actually make sense; very few organic compounds are magnetic to any significant degree, and DNA replication mechanisms are not on the list. You explicitly state that high mana levels generate EM interference.
The tiny distortions in metal have nothing to do with EM apart from the root cause. They're just tiny random shape metal effects.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:00 PM   #19
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by Whitewings View Post
I doubt it would be used often, given how expensive Instaskill is, but the setting effects are what interest me most, both positive and negative. Remember that in this setting, magic is an extremely new field: less than 70 years since the first successful casting of a spell. So the idea of "that's not how it's done!" is probably not yet a part of local culture. In this setting, mana is called ki, spells are ki techniques, mages are ki sensitives, and mages who know Shapeshifting are known as ki adepts. Shapeshifting is one of the most advanced spells known, and a mark of mastery. Healer, fire master, communications expert, any second rank ki sensitive with six techniques down will almost certainly learn Shapeshifting.
...Did you tell us you were talking about a specific setting at some point?
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Not really. Tendons are stretchy so a slight and temporary distortion doesn't make much of a difference and living creatures get resistance rolls. Machines don't.
I said skeletons, specifically. Connective tissue can indeed forgive some distortion. Load-bearing bone-bone joints, on the other hand, can get downright miserable if you mess up the facing surfaces.

Of course, the addition that the distortion is temporary helps considerably, but it could also help considerably for machinery.
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However what it does do terrible things to is reproductive cells. Basically you need a spell if you don't want a substantial proportion of your offspring to miscarry or be mutants. They'd also have a higher risk of cancer.
I wondered if you'd go there. It doesn't necessarily follow, and might actually have messier implications than you realize, in a couple different respects.

Both DNA and protein could reasonably not be damaged by either tiny mechanical distortions or EM effects. Unless the distortions outright break the covalent backbone, DNA will be completely unfazed. Protein might occasionally denature, but when it does it will often be reversible in vivo. If you do break molecules, proteins will usually be ruined if hit, and some might form problematic denatured forms. You might get protein plaque associated problems. DNA will usually be repaired successfully unless there's a lot of damage happening at once.

And if you do do heavy molecular damage that's a lot more than a reproductive threat. Like radiation poisoning, it'll hit fast-dividing tissues all over, notably bone marrow...
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:28 PM   #20
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
...Did you tell us you were talking about a specific setting at some point?

I said skeletons, specifically. Connective tissue can indeed forgive some distortion. Load-bearing bone-bone joints, on the other hand, can get downright miserable if you mess up the facing surfaces.

Of course, the addition that the distortion is temporary helps considerably, but it could also help considerably for machinery..
If the machinery isn't operating then no problem. If it distorts while in motion and the tolerances are tight it can really damage itself and at the least jam. In short, increased Malf numbers. The higher the tech, the bigger the increase.
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