Who brings a knife to a gun-fight?

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Yes, now I'm not completely up on the latest edition, but IIRC you could start at max range for rifle equivalent weapon and arrive in close combat with rifle wielder, in the time it takes the rifle wielder to attack twice.

So in other words:

There are no ranged weapons in WH40k, just long spears that have been cleverly renamed 'ranged weapons'.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by starslayer

So in other words:

There are no ranged weapons in WH40k, just long spears that have been cleverly renamed 'ranged weapons'.

Well since 40k never defined what an attack is and how long a turn is (but how quickly can you run 48 yards), an attack could be a single shot, a clip, or more.

Actually I'm being unfair an automatic weapon can fore twice at half range (24 yards)!

But yeah 40k is basically "wait until you see the white's* of their eyes"


Of course as said there's the inherent table top issue that you are actually fighting on a table top.

Or red's, or green's or tentacles of their eyes

[warellis]

You ask this question on knives and gun fights but is it for tabletop purposes or fluff purposes? Because the tabletop rules don't really reflect the fluff for 40K. It's the same reason why we shouldn't assume battlemechs from Battletech only have 90-meter range machine guns.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Well since 40k never defined what an attack is and how long a turn is (but how quickly can you run 48 yards), an attack could be a single shot, a clip, or more.

Actually I'm being unfair an automatic weapon can fore twice at half range (24 yards)!

But yeah 40k is basically "wait until you see the white's* of their eyes"


Of course as said there's the inherent table top issue that you are actually fighting on a table top.

Or red's, or green's or tentacles of their eyes

I've played Rogue Trader RPG, and skimmed Dark Heresy RPG. The allegedly 'rapid firing' weapons are not what they call themselves. Ranges are meh too, but I don't remember the numbers.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I've played Rogue Trader RPG, and skimmed Dark Heresy RPG. The allegedly 'rapid firing' weapons are not what they call themselves. Ranges are meh too, but I don't remember the numbers.

Someone using a rifle in dark heresy has a pretty good chance of being able to attack, with a meaningful hit chance, at 400 meters. Not amazing, but compared to a movement rate that's generally 8-16 meters/turn when running, there's still plenty of time to hit and kill a charging foe unless there's terrain preventing you from engaging them.

[Dangerious P. Cats]

For whatever reason 40K always made me think of late 19th century warfare for some reason, probably that officers tend to have a sword and pistol. Though bayonets are seemingly rare in the 40K universe, which seems a bit odd. I've found this video to be a fairly good explanation of why one would want both a firearm and either sword or bayonet in late 19th century warfare, I wonder how much of it could reasonably be applied to 40K as a setting?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

Though bayonets are seemingly rare in the 40K universe, which seems a bit odd.

They're available in the tabletop, though they're chainswords because who would have a simple knife when you can have a chainsaw attached to your gun?

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I've played Rogue Trader RPG, and skimmed Dark Heresy RPG. The allegedly 'rapid firing' weapons are not what they call themselves. Ranges are meh too, but I don't remember the numbers.

The ones in the RPGs are pretty reasonable (it all depends on what you firing at) the problem that they have is they have to fit on scale of lots of weird and wonderful weapons, so the basic auto gun is a it lack lustre. The TL in the setting is all over the place. (The original rogue trader has stats for black powder muskets).

Originally Posted by Anthony

Someone using a rifle in dark heresy has a pretty good chance of being able to attack, with a meaningful hit chance, at 400 meters. Not amazing, but compared to a movement rate that's generally 8-16 meters/turn when running, there's still plenty of time to hit and kill a charging foe unless there's terrain preventing you from engaging them.

The RPGs and the TT do rather differ in this, the stuff I posted above is more relevant to the TT than the RPG.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Anthony

They're available in the tabletop, though they're chainswords because who would have a simple knife when you can have a chainsaw attached to your gun?

That's really only if you're a Space Marine. Guardsmen just use the standard knife bayonet we all think of regarding bayonets while Sisters of Battle use some sort of elegant but tough blade for their bayonets called a sarissa.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

Though bayonets are seemingly rare in the 40K universe, which seems a bit odd.

The advantages of a bayonet over a sword are less weight, less cost, and better ability to keep your opponent at a distance. Space Marines have powered armour which makes the weight saving fairly irrelevant, and presumably costs enough to make the cost a minor issue. And the setting's all about close-in brutality in combat.