02-08-2018, 01:21 PM | #81 | ||
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
In the case of Ogres, I'd allow them to hold individual weapon fire. A bit of a hassle, of course. But remember that a unit won't gratuitously hold fire. If it has a target in its combat phase, it will shoot then. The cost of hold fire is that you convert an attack that would normally happen before the enemy combat phase into an attack that occurs simultaneously in the enemy combat phase.
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My approach is to make the minimum amount of change I think necessary to prevent (what I consider to be) unreasonable tactics from being effective. Quote:
Last edited by tbeard1999; 02-08-2018 at 02:19 PM. |
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02-09-2018, 04:25 AM | #82 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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True, its changing the balance somewhat, but I would argue it's in such a way that may compliment the game. (Playtesting trials pending of course). Well, if it is an optional rule that compliments the game, I'm all for such things.
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"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars |
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02-09-2018, 02:22 PM | #83 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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02-10-2018, 04:33 AM | #84 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Milan, Italy
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
Although it would change the game balance a lot in GEV games with no Ogre maybe (judt maybe) in a positive way, it would dramatically alter the perfect balance in standard Ogre games because the Ogre can simply crush the CP and win the game (Gev or not, reduced movement or not).
I am a big fan of “overwatch” in miniature games, but Ogre is an abstract wargame and a hold fire/overwatch rule might distort the game flow (which I love as it is). Please, someone from the veterans just playtest it and tell us his feelings about this. |
02-12-2018, 04:15 AM | #85 |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
Well, I thought I understood this, but I'm having trouble with the sequencing.
Turn 1, Combine Turn, Combine moves units. Combine has no attacks. Combine Turn ends. Paneurope Turn, Paneurope moves units. Some of those units are now in some of Combine units attack range. Paneuropean Fire Phase, Paneurope resolves it's attacks on Combine units. Does Combine now get to use Hold Fire against those Paneuropean units now in range? For the simultaneous Hold Fire "Phase"? Does Hold Fire carry over from say, Turn 1 to Turn 2? From the example above, what if Paneurope had units that didn't Fire on their turn from Turn 1. Then on turn 2, Combine moves units into attack range from Paneuropean units. Can those Paneuropean units then make Hold Fire attacks against those Combine units that just moved into their attack range? If so, do they then also get to make their normal attacks on their Fire Phase? And to be clear, does a unit have to be declared as using Hold Fire and a token placed with it in order to use it? What if the player does not see a unit is eligible for Hold Fire, and does not place a token on it? Can it still use it? I ask because I just play tested a MARK3 ATTACKS Scenario and it seems it becomes a case of apples and oranges regarding the token placement/ Hold Fire declaration because it is more of a natural default state of a unit if it is Hold Firing or not. If it did not fire on it's turn, it by default can Hold Fire, correct? It just got somewhat unusual and I found myself wondering if I should be marking units that didn't Fire or units that did fire.
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"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 02-12-2018 at 04:37 AM. |
02-12-2018, 05:51 AM | #86 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Milan, Italy
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
In my opinion, the only way to use this is to place an overwatch token for overwatch status. The unit on overwatch may fire to any enemy unit moving into range of attack. Not necessarily with a simultaneous fire mechanic.
It would be a total mess to use with an Ogre, and most probably would unbalance all scenarios involving Ogre. It would make howitzers and missile tanks far more deadly, for example, and it should be reflected in their cost/unit. GEV would be extremely nerfed. Ogre is a game a like a lot. It seems I can not play anything else (WH40K, Xwing miniature). I might play some Space Hulk (the game that invented the Overwatch in the first place), but I prefer Ogre anyway. I think that Ogre is the perfect blend of an abstract game and a simulation game, a wargame and a miniature game. That is the charm/mechanics of Ogre that I love. Overwatch, or Hold your Fire, would alter the game flow dramatically. This is just my opinion, as an Ogre newbie. |
02-12-2018, 07:51 AM | #87 | |||||
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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What I am not sure of is if the defender can attack using Hold Fire at that point if they did not fire in their previous turn, and then attack again on their normal Fire Phase. If so, that is still not as deadly as firing as soon as the enemy enters their attack range because the enemy can get closer to the target more often. Quote:
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This Variant Rule in no way takes anything away from OGRE. It would be, if ever proven to be viable and complimentary to the game, just that, a variant and optional rule if players so chose to use it. It actually speaks volumes to the game itself that it is so well done, that such variant rules could possibly be used with it. WELCOME TO THE 21st CENTURY. :)
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"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars |
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02-12-2018, 08:14 AM | #88 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Milan, Italy
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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Many thanks, if you come to Italy, be my guest! |
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02-12-2018, 12:15 PM | #89 | |||||
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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...It just got somewhat unusual and I found myself wondering if I should be marking units that didn't Fire or units that did fire.[/QUOTE] I would mark them, at least until everyone is familiar with how the rule works. Note that units won't typically use Hold Fire once they close the range with the enemy. A unit is far better off shooting at an available target in its combat phase, rather than shooting at that target with Hold Fire. As an aside, units with Hold Fire markers are attacked normally in Overrun combat. (They get to shoot first in Overrun combat, which prevents weird results.) They don't lose their Hold Fire status because of Overrun combat (I.e., they're treated the same as moving stands.) |
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02-12-2018, 12:25 PM | #90 |
Join Date: May 2012
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
Would hold fire make the PBI even less likely to survive, though?
Right now, once the Other has been brought down to M2, the PBI can stay "behind" the Ogre and the Ogre has to choose to spend a turn not moving to mow then down with AP, or advance towards the objectives. With Hold Fire, the Ogre can just hold fire and attack the infantry as they approach. That's as much of a change as an ME (Edit: This should be M2) Ones (Edit: This should be Ogre) not being able to catch a GEV Last edited by ianargent; 02-13-2018 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Correcting Autocorrect. |
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