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Old 06-28-2019, 10:40 PM   #11
LordMunchkin
 
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Default Re: The Guildless (explaining what PCs are)

I think the existence of adventurers is justified when you consider how deadly most dungeon fantasy monsters are to normal humans. A stereotypical feudal society probably wouldn't be able to deal with them in any satisfactory manner. Thus, there'd likely be a class of people who specialize in monster extermination. Add in the existence of widespread ruins hailing from a former, more advanced era and you have fertile ground for stereotypical adventurers.

On a sidenote, I quite like the idea of adventurer guilds. It'd make sense for any ruler to try to regulate roaming bands of armed men. The adventurers themselves would probably desire legal protection as well.
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:59 AM   #12
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Thus, there'd likely be a class of people who specialize in monster extermination.
Oh, certainly if you have monsters you'll have people who specialize in dealing with monsters, but the trick is having them much resemble adventurers.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Guildless (explaining what PCs are)

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Oh, certainly if you have monsters you'll have people who specialize in dealing with monsters, but the trick is having them much resemble adventurers.
It's not that hard of a trick. In any society in which vigilantism is allowed upon the 'other', whether explicit, implicit, or inferred, you will have groups of unprofessional vigilantes that will perform that 'duty' (expressly so if there are tangible rewards linked to the performance of said 'duty').


Now getting them to look like 250+ point delvers might take some meta-buyin, but that's a separate issue.
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Guildless (explaining what PCs are)

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It's not that hard of a trick. In any society in which vigilantism is allowed upon the 'other', whether explicit, implicit, or inferred, you will have groups of unprofessional vigilantes that will perform that 'duty' (expressly so if there are tangible rewards linked to the performance of said 'duty').


Now getting them to look like 250+ point delvers might take some meta-buyin, but that's a separate issue.
The "guildless" concept helps with why they look like 250+ point delvers, I think. In the "Why Adventuring Parties?"thread, Kromm basically came out and said that beginning delvers, even at the 250+ point level, can expect to get badly underpaid for the jobs they take. If even very talented individuals can wind up in a position where they're legally barred from doing anything else, it explains why 250+ folks are taking on dubious quests rather than earning a steady income performing spell-for-fee services or leading armies.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:06 PM   #15
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Imagine a religious society that trains priests and ordained in their duties, but provides no support (political or economic) outside what the laity and followers themselves wish to support.
In MOST circumstances, if you are blessed by your god and receive education and training from a church, that's an investment that would anticipate a return in miracles that serve the wealth and health of the religion or defense of the church and her followers. That sort of work in most settings would be peak establishment.

There could be a lot of exceptions but they would require a lot of manufacturing. You could be of a religion with no temples because the faith is in recline or because your God forbids them. So you are literally imbued with the power, found and taught the Word and marched out into the wilderness to fix what your God says is wrong. You could be of a religion not practiced "here". Your faith is foreign and not part of the theology power structure. But if you want to be part of the Sun/Father/Harvest/War God religion, take refuge in the temple, be respected by the followers, then that stands at odds with being part of the class that is shut out of prosperity or trust in your society.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:23 PM   #16
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Now getting them to look like 250+ point delvers might take some meta-buyin, but that's a separate issue.
That depends on the power level of world. If 250+ point characters aren't uncommon, then there will likely be delvers at that level. This is especially true if social mobility is limited. The 250+ point characters with connections don't delve because they have very little to gain. Meanwhile, the connectionless do because otherwise they'd be stuck doing grunt work for the rest of their lives.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:54 AM   #17
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That depends on the power level of world.
It can, but I don't run worlds where 259 point Characters are "common". 250 point characters are PCs, NPCs are pointless.

But I rarely have ypp much difficulty with the meta buyin. If a Player doesn't seem to be getting it, I explain it again. If I have to explain it three times, they are likely to be disinvited for future games.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:47 AM   #18
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In MOST circumstances, if you are blessed by your god and receive education and training from a church, that's an investment that would anticipate a return in miracles that serve the wealth and health of the religion or defense of the church and her followers. That sort of work in most settings would be peak establishment.

There could be a lot of exceptions but they would require a lot of manufacturing. You could be of a religion with no temples because the faith is in recline or because your God forbids them. So you are literally imbued with the power, found and taught the Word and marched out into the wilderness to fix what your God says is wrong. You could be of a religion not practiced "here". Your faith is foreign and not part of the theology power structure. But if you want to be part of the Sun/Father/Harvest/War God religion, take refuge in the temple, be respected by the followers, then that stands at odds with being part of the class that is shut out of prosperity or trust in your society.
I don't think you need to be quite so extreme about it. I'd go for something like this: to make a steady living performing spell-for-"donation" services, clerics need to receive an assignment from their church to do that in a specific city, rural district, or similar (e.g. a cleric of a sea god might be assigned to a specific ship). Merely having clerical investment does not guarantee such a posting, and for whatever reason there are more clerics than available postings.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:50 AM   #19
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I don't think you need to be quite so extreme about it. I'd go for something like this: to make a steady living performing spell-for-"donation" services, clerics need to receive an assignment from their church to do that in a specific city, rural district, or similar (e.g. a cleric of a sea god might be assigned to a specific ship). Merely having clerical investment does not guarantee such a posting, and for whatever reason there are more clerics than available postings.
I don't think there's anything extreme about Clerics being part of a clergy or a deity imbuing powers on someone with an intent. I really believe the opposite would be extreme. I realize Dungeon Fantasy isn't built to deal with the political intrigue or Dogmatic aspects of religious organizations but Fantasy Gods do have religions and religions are powerful praxic forces in a world.

I like the idea of caste-based worlds. I use them a lot. I like the concept of adventurers either being shunted into a lower caste or becoming adventurers because they couldn't get ahead any other way. But that setting would have to address why archetypes that are generally part of a very conservative and established part of society would find themselves in a Guildless Caste.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:01 PM   #20
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... religions are powerful praxic forces in a world.
They still can be. But in a world where the gods hand out Holiness like candy on hallows eve, anyone could be a Cleric or Holy Warrior.

In such a case, getting a posting may require considerable political sway, sway the Characters do not have.
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