New use for XP - Heroic Exploits - Page 11

TippetsTX · 01-22-2019, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb

I don't have a second for replacing Staff to Snake with Staff to Familiar?

Sorry, but I don't follow.

hcobb · 01-22-2019, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Sorry, but I don't follow.

http://www.hcobb.com/tft/new_spells.html#Spells

TippetsTX · 01-22-2019, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarg

I like that the increasing costs makes the more powerful costs more costly and less common/accessible.

Escalating costs is my preference as well, but there was some early feedback that a flat cost was more in line with the existing rules for acquiring talents or spells using XP (although I would argue that those costs should probably increase at some point as well).

BTW, if folks think that 500 XP is too low for the entry-level tier 1 Power, I'm considering the following as an alternate progression schedule...

Tier 1 and 2 Powers - 750 XP each
Tier 3 and 4 Powers - 1500 XP
Tier 5 Powers - 3000 XP

The total expenditure of XP to get to Tier 5 remains the same (7500 XP), but the distribution is balanced a little heavier at the top.

Skarg · 01-22-2019, 11:41 AM

Costs are relative.

If learning Climbing or Swimming or Horsemanship or Knife costs 500 XP, then 500 XP seems low for a magic super power, relative to those.

If going from a 29-point character to a 34-point character is 500 XP, then 500 XP for a minor magic super-power won't seem like a deal except to higher-point characters.

Sadly, in RAW both are true, which makes XP is a hard standard to use to judge what a good cost is.

My reading of that situation however is that it's supposed to be like original TFT in that most NPC people stay around 30 points, and exceptional people get XP from surviving exceptional experiences, and there are other ways to learn talents, so 500 XP per talent point is the cost for "pushing beyond" what most people are able to learn and practice, not the usual difficulty of learning to swim. In which case, I think your costs are mostly fine.

But there's also the matter of what the abilities do. If you standardize every person with these special abilities as they have standardized cost schedules and a limit of five, that sort of implies you will try to balance their power levels, which is a bit subjective and limiting in what you can do. One alternative could be pricing each tier in each portfolio as what you think it's worth... or just how difficult you feel it should be to learn (possibly for non-balance reasons). Or maybe just having some exceptions. Or not. ;-)

TippetsTX · 01-22-2019, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarg

But there's also the matter of what the abilities do. If you standardize every person with these special abilities as they have standardized cost schedules and a limit of five, that sort of implies you will try to balance their power levels, which is a bit subjective and limiting in what you can do. One alternative could be pricing each tier in each portfolio as what you think it's worth... or just how difficult you feel it should be to learn (possibly for non-balance reasons). Or maybe just having some exceptions. Or not. ;-)

Yes, balance is the tricky part which is another reason why the revised cost progression might be the better approach. It may be easier (though admittedly still subjective) to balance Powers into low/medium/high groupings rather than 5 distinct and relative power-levels.

TippetsTX · 01-25-2019, 05:14 PM

Something Skarg mentioned got me thinking about a slightly different structure for Powers and the revised XP costs I presented above fit into the idea as well.

Each portfolio still has 5 Powers and 5 is still the max any character can acquire, but instead of 5 separate tiers there are only 3. This would mean the first two Powers are both tier 1, the next two are tier 2 and the final Power is tier 3. So what's the point? A bit more flexibility for one.

For example, the Channeling portfolio would be reorganized so that Bestow Grace and Smite are both considered tier 1 Powers. That way a hero character who is more interested in offensive capabilities could select Smite w/o needing to acquire Bestow Grace first.

I still have to give some thought to a few questions this change would create, like does the character need to acquire all four tier 1 and 2 Powers in order to unlock the pinnacle tier 3 Power or is one from each lower tier sufficient (I'm leaning towards the first option)?

Skarg · 01-26-2019, 12:09 AM

The portfolios seem rather different to me so far, so I'm not getting why they would all have the same structure and XP costs, other than the god that created them liking symmetry?

TippetsTX · 01-26-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarg

The portfolios seem rather different to me so far, so I'm not getting why they would all have the same structure and XP costs, other than the god that created them liking symmetry?

I do, yes. ;)

To expand... my goal for Powers is 'different but balanced' which means that while they may have vastly different effects, all tier 1 Powers should be more limited in scope and impact than any tier 2 Powers. Just like all IQ 14 spells are technically the same 'level' even though they have varied effects and costs.

TippetsTX · 01-27-2019, 09:04 PM

So here's the re-structured version of the Channeling Portfolio (along w/ a few tweaks to address some of Skarg's comments and questions)...

Tier 1 Powers (750 XP each)

Bestow Grace

Three times per day, the character may draw on positive energies to temporarily boost DX or restore ST lost to fatigue for themselves or another player by 1 point per Power tier they have acquired in this portfolio (i.e. a character w/ the tier 3 ability ‘Restoration’ may add up to 3 DX). If granted to another player, the giver must be physically touching them. This enhancement only lasts for 5 turns.

If used against beings fueled by negative energy, however, this Power will have the reverse effect; temporarily disrupting them by subtracting from DX instead of boosting it (fatigue damage is not possible).

Note: This Power should stack with DX gained from other sources such as the Aid spell or magic items, however, the GM may want to consider capping the total amount of attribute bonuses that can stack to avoid unbalancing encounters.

Smite

The character with this Power has unlocked the ability to channel positive energy as a weapon against creatures that draw their strength from negative energy such as the undead (and demons in my campaign). Twice per day, they may target a single opponent and deliver ‘Smite’ damage equal to 1d+1 for each Power tier they have unlocked (i.e. 2d+2 if the character acquires a tier 2 Power). This damage will bypass the armor or natural defense of its target, however, magical defenses such as Stone Flesh still apply. The charge can be delivered directly via touch or as bonus damage channeled thru the character's melee weapon on a successful hit. Additionally, a wizard with this Power can add ‘Smite’ damage to their arcane staff strike or missile spells.

Note: The opponents that ‘Smite’ as well as ‘Radiant Burst’ can be used against may be expanded at the GM’s discretion and based on the nature of their specific campaign. For example, in some settings characters may be able to use ‘Smite’ against any supernatural or evil creature.

Tier 2 Powers (1500 XP each)

Heal/Fortify

For each tier from the Channeling Portfolio that the character has unlocked, they may bestow 2 points of ST (or 3 points if it is from fatigue loss) per day to one or more characters including himself. For example, the channeler will initially have 4 ST to grant each day but if they advance all the way to the 3rd tier they will be able to distribute up to 6 ST. The healing energy will cure ST already lost to disease and poison, but it will not cure the disease nor make a poison go away. As with ‘Bestow Grace’, if the ST is given to another player, the giver must be physically touching them. And also like that Power, ‘Heal’ will have the reverse effect when used on negative energy creatures.

There is also synergy between this Power and the talents for Physicker and Master Physicker. A character with these talents will have a greater understanding of the healing arts and will therefore be able to more effectively channel the energies from this Power to the wounds being treated. As a result, a character with Physicker has access to double the amount listed above for ST lost to injury only, not fatigue, and a Master Physicker will have triple.

Radiant Burst

Once per day, the character can now deliver a burst of positive energy to every undead creature (or demon) in their hex or any hex directly adjacent to them. It has no adverse effects against other creatures. Burst damage is 1d plus 1 more die for each Power tier they have unlocked (i.e. 3d to start). No roll to hit is necessary, although intelligent foes in the blast radius may attempt to resist, taking half damage by making a successful adjDX roll. The energy burst will also paralyze unintelligent undead up to two hexes away from the character for 3 turns (assuming those closest are not immediately destroyed by the initial blast). As with ‘Smite’, this damage will bypass the armor or natural defense of its target.

As a secondary effect, all living beings caught within the immediate blast radius receive the effect of the ‘Bestow Grace’ Power. This does not count against the daily uses of that 1st tier Power, however.

Tier 3 Power (3000 XP)

Restoration

Once per month*, the character can use this Power to restore any creature back to full health. Like the Revival spell, it cures all minor wounds, diseases, and poisons, but unlike Revival, the creature cannot actually be dead… unconscious and dying, yes, but not completely dead (at the GM’s discretion, they might also establish an effective window when the Power can be used. Something like “before the last light of the setting sun disappears into the night”).

This Power can also be used to reverse the effects of magical aging and the corruption that results from exposure to necromantic forces.

*The GM will need to determine what exactly this means for their campaign. For example, it could be based on a lunar cycle (new moon to new moon) or simply once during any 30-day period.

Tywyll · 05-12-2019, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

You have the right idea, but I don't think talents are the right mechanism for the type of abilities I am considering. They should not be dependent on a particular IQ score and they will also represent capabilities that are beyond what can be achieved thru training.

I think they should still plug into the talent mechanic or otherwise a player couldn't start with them. Why should that concept be off the table, especially if they start an advanced character? If you don't want them to be limited by INT just make them all IQ7+ but give them some hefty prerequisites...OR buy them with xp. So there are two roads to gaining them.

01-22-2019, 11:41 AM	#104
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits Costs are relative. If learning Climbing or Swimming or Horsemanship or Knife costs 500 XP, then 500 XP seems low for a magic super power, relative to those. If going from a 29-point character to a 34-point character is 500 XP, then 500 XP for a minor magic super-power won't seem like a deal except to higher-point characters. Sadly, in RAW both are true, which makes XP is a hard standard to use to judge what a good cost is. My reading of that situation however is that it's supposed to be like original TFT in that most NPC people stay around 30 points, and exceptional people get XP from surviving exceptional experiences, and there are other ways to learn talents, so 500 XP per talent point is the cost for "pushing beyond" what most people are able to learn and practice, not the usual difficulty of learning to swim. In which case, I think your costs are mostly fine. But there's also the matter of what the abilities do. If you standardize every person with these special abilities as they have standardized cost schedules and a limit of five, that sort of implies you will try to balance their power levels, which is a bit subjective and limiting in what you can do. One alternative could be pricing each tier in each portfolio as what you think it's worth... or just how difficult you feel it should be to learn (possibly for non-balance reasons). Or maybe just having some exceptions. Or not. ;-)

01-25-2019, 05:14 PM	#106
TippetsTX Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: North Texas	Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits Something Skarg mentioned got me thinking about a slightly different structure for Powers and the revised XP costs I presented above fit into the idea as well. Each portfolio still has 5 Powers and 5 is still the max any character can acquire, but instead of 5 separate tiers there are only 3. This would mean the first two Powers are both tier 1, the next two are tier 2 and the final Power is tier 3. So what's the point? A bit more flexibility for one. For example, the Channeling portfolio would be reorganized so that Bestow Grace and Smite are both considered tier 1 Powers. That way a hero character who is more interested in offensive capabilities could select Smite w/o needing to acquire Bestow Grace first. I still have to give some thought to a few questions this change would create, like does the character need to acquire all four tier 1 and 2 Powers in order to unlock the pinnacle tier 3 Power or is one from each lower tier sufficient (I'm leaning towards the first option)? __________________ “No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos

01-26-2019, 12:09 AM	#107
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits The portfolios seem rather different to me so far, so I'm not getting why they would all have the same structure and XP costs, other than the god that created them liking symmetry?

01-27-2019, 09:04 PM	#109
TippetsTX Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: North Texas	Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits So here's the re-structured version of the Channeling Portfolio (along w/ a few tweaks to address some of Skarg's comments and questions)... Tier 1 Powers (750 XP each) Bestow Grace Three times per day, the character may draw on positive energies to temporarily boost DX or restore ST lost to fatigue for themselves or another player by 1 point per Power tier they have acquired in this portfolio (i.e. a character w/ the tier 3 ability ‘Restoration’ may add up to 3 DX). If granted to another player, the giver must be physically touching them. This enhancement only lasts for 5 turns. If used against beings fueled by negative energy, however, this Power will have the reverse effect; temporarily disrupting them by subtracting from DX instead of boosting it (fatigue damage is not possible). Note: This Power should stack with DX gained from other sources such as the Aid spell or magic items, however, the GM may want to consider capping the total amount of attribute bonuses that can stack to avoid unbalancing encounters. Smite The character with this Power has unlocked the ability to channel positive energy as a weapon against creatures that draw their strength from negative energy such as the undead (and demons in my campaign). Twice per day, they may target a single opponent and deliver ‘Smite’ damage equal to 1d+1 for each Power tier they have unlocked (i.e. 2d+2 if the character acquires a tier 2 Power). This damage will bypass the armor or natural defense of its target, however, magical defenses such as Stone Flesh still apply. The charge can be delivered directly via touch or as bonus damage channeled thru the character's melee weapon on a successful hit. Additionally, a wizard with this Power can add ‘Smite’ damage to their arcane staff strike or missile spells. Note: The opponents that ‘Smite’ as well as ‘Radiant Burst’ can be used against may be expanded at the GM’s discretion and based on the nature of their specific campaign. For example, in some settings characters may be able to use ‘Smite’ against any supernatural or evil creature. Tier 2 Powers (1500 XP each) Heal/Fortify For each tier from the Channeling Portfolio that the character has unlocked, they may bestow 2 points of ST (or 3 points if it is from fatigue loss) per day to one or more characters including himself. For example, the channeler will initially have 4 ST to grant each day but if they advance all the way to the 3rd tier they will be able to distribute up to 6 ST. The healing energy will cure ST already lost to disease and poison, but it will not cure the disease nor make a poison go away. As with ‘Bestow Grace’, if the ST is given to another player, the giver must be physically touching them. And also like that Power, ‘Heal’ will have the reverse effect when used on negative energy creatures. There is also synergy between this Power and the talents for Physicker and Master Physicker. A character with these talents will have a greater understanding of the healing arts and will therefore be able to more effectively channel the energies from this Power to the wounds being treated. As a result, a character with Physicker has access to double the amount listed above for ST lost to injury only, not fatigue, and a Master Physicker will have triple. Radiant Burst Once per day, the character can now deliver a burst of positive energy to every undead creature (or demon) in their hex or any hex directly adjacent to them. It has no adverse effects against other creatures. Burst damage is 1d plus 1 more die for each Power tier they have unlocked (i.e. 3d to start). No roll to hit is necessary, although intelligent foes in the blast radius may attempt to resist, taking half damage by making a successful adjDX roll. The energy burst will also paralyze unintelligent undead up to two hexes away from the character for 3 turns (assuming those closest are not immediately destroyed by the initial blast). As with ‘Smite’, this damage will bypass the armor or natural defense of its target. As a secondary effect, all living beings caught within the immediate blast radius receive the effect of the ‘Bestow Grace’ Power. This does not count against the daily uses of that 1st tier Power, however. *Tier 3 Power (3000 XP)* Restoration Once per month, the character can use this Power to restore any creature back to full health. Like the Revival spell, it cures all minor wounds, diseases, and poisons, but unlike Revival, the creature cannot actually be dead… unconscious and dying, yes, but not completely dead (at the GM’s discretion, they might also establish an effective window when the Power can be used. Something like “before the last light of the setting sun disappears into the night”). This Power can also be used to reverse the effects of magical aging and the corruption that results from exposure to necromantic forces. The GM will need to determine what exactly this means for their campaign. For example, it could be based on a lunar cycle (new moon to new moon) or simply once during any 30-day period. __________________ “No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos Last edited by TippetsTX; 01-28-2019 at 12:33 PM.