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Old 03-23-2011, 01:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

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Well, assuming defenses don't properly scale with size, at least. My general rule of thumb for giant monsters is that they don't have any locations with DR less than 10% of hit points, and they have a BL of at least 10% of their mass, so a SM +4 (10 ton) dragon has a ST of at least 100 and DR 10 in its weak spots, and a SM +11 (150 yard, 30,000 ton) dragon has ST 5,500 and no locations with DR less than 550. Obviously, YMMV...
The giant dragon had a BL of around 87.5% of his weight and HPs to match. HP 3500, in fact. His effective DR ranged from 100 or so to a minimum of 32 or so on the eyes. The scale DR was DR 80 (Hardened 2), but this did not apply to eye DR. In addition, DR 20 was against non-magical weapons only.

But given the ability to aim for Chinks in Armour and the AD of typical magical weapons....

I don't really see any justification for DR 550 on the eyes, even for a huge dragon. Hits there hurt. They'll just usually not do enough damage to disable the dragon or even blind it. Unless the PCs are using powerful magical stuff that explodes, of course.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

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What I need to know is how much recoil impulse is plausible to assume that a ST 12 man can handle?
RCL 5-7, based on the rifles in HT.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

Animal brains were used in the tanning process so magical leather armour or clothing with inherent powers/magic is another option.

A length of dragon's muscle fibres would be the best rope substitute ever. That stuff just won't break and can support crazy weight.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:36 PM   #24
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

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The giant dragon had a BL of around 87.5% of his weight and HPs to match.
Musta been lightweight, which isn't unreasonable if 150m was tip to tail for something kinda serpentine; BL of 1225 tons implies mass of 1,400 tons, which is on the high end for a SM +8 humanoid (typical mass 750T) or low end for SM +9 (typical mass 2,500T).
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HP 3500, in fact. His effective DR ranged from 100 or so to a minimum of 32 or so on the eyes. The scale DR was DR 80 (Hardened 2), but this did not apply to eye DR. In addition, DR 20 was against non-magical weapons only.
That's pretty low. If you give a man-sized crocodile or komodo dragon DR 1-2, equivalent strength materials will result in DR 350-700 for the body as a whole. Eye DR depends on structure, but nictitating membranes are quite common for reptilian creatures (and a lot of creatures don't have a straight path between eye and brain), and a vanilla nictitating membrane is DR 1 in GURPS, so that scales up into the hundreds at least.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

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RCL 5-7, based on the rifles in HT.
That's Rcl stat in GURPS, which I don't think has much in common with real world recoil impulse.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

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Musta been lightweight, which isn't unreasonable if 150m was tip to tail for something kinda serpentine; BL of 1225 tons implies mass of 1,400 tons, which is on the high end for a SM +8 humanoid (typical mass 750T) or low end for SM +9 (typical mass 2,500T).
Fully half is tail and the bones and muscles are much lighter than equivalent natural creatures.

It's SM +10 (ignore the tail, it's not really relevant) and 1,400 tons.

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That's pretty low. If you give a man-sized crocodile or komodo dragon DR 1-2, equivalent strength materials will result in DR 350-700 for the body as a whole.
Proportionally much thinner scales, as the creature wants to fly. Yes, it has supermuscles and magic providing lift, but the less we have to trick physics, the better. One day, physics might be in a position to get us back.

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Eye DR depends on structure, but nictitating membranes are quite common for reptilian creatures (and a lot of creatures don't have a straight path between eye and brain), and a vanilla nictitating membrane is DR 1 in GURPS, so that scales up into the hundreds at least.
Inner Nictitating Membrane with DR 12 + 20 (Limited Defence: Non-magical weapons). Outer eyelid with DR 28 (Hardened 2) that adds on top, but requires a Dodge roll at +4 to close on attacks.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:55 PM   #27
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You might be able to refine dragon's blood (or some other fluid) into an imperishable lamp oil. Perhaps if you concentrate the natural mana appropriately the resulting oil (ichor/suspension/fluid) will sustain flame without being consumed.

If dragons are creatures of supernatural majesty perhaps some fragment of that remains - imagine the potency of a throne carved from the petrified heart of a giant dragon. A mantle made from the heartstrings. A scepter made of a tine from the dragon's cranial frill, topped with the obsidian remains of the beast's last meal.

A dragon that size will make a lot of steaks - perhaps dragon jerky gives PCs Temperature Tolerance by warming them in blizzards?

Does the dragon's flesh or humours have a supernatural association with flame, rather than merely a suffusion of fire magic? When properly 'cleansed,' a poultice of dragon marrow might draw out fever by sucking all the Fire from a sick human.

On the other hand, perhaps preparations made from the Dragon's spleen are replete with hot-burning rage - potent materials for Berzerker potions and the like.

Dragon's liver powder could be a potent antiseptic - burning an infected wound of contaminants.

Dragon's Bile is a potent poison - causing intense fever, replete with delirium and hallucinations of fire and death, before cooking the victim's brain in his skull. Maybe in small doses (or prepared differently) the hallucinations are useful - allowing you to see fire magic. Or intuitively understand the weaving of the crimson threads in the tapestry of fate - foreseeing destruction or conflagration, but nothing else (different dragon for that, honey).

Preparations of kidney can purify large volumes of water, which will remain scalding hot for far longer than it should. And it'll taste funny.

The adrenal glands (and other parts of the endocrine system, assuming dragons have such things) might be subtler poisons - limited sorts of chemical mind control, driving people into rage, or fostering hate or superiority or contempt - potentially useful, given inventive PCs.

Preparations of the gonads will (of course) give potent... potence.

You said above that dragon's eat rocks and digest them in the fiery furnace of
their stomach. Do they have intestines? You could make some great sausage casings that will never split open on the grill! Actually, given the size of the beast, those casings are probably made from the walls of the smaller blood vessels.

The intestines or stomach could make a fabulous bag for a hot-air balloon or zeppelin, though! Perhaps it'd have enough heat left in it to float without fuel!

A talon (or the tip of a pointed tail) could make a pretty nifty enchanted plow, that cleaves effortlessly through field stones.

A rib would make a great keel for a ship - if it's a timere or bireme imagine what damage that ram would do an enemy vessel! The keel might have such an elemental repulsion from the sea that the top speed of such a vessel would substantially exceed that of similar ships.

I'm sure I can think of another couple dozen... bigger/more expensive vs. smaller/more individual? A dragon of that size has got to be a pretty rare kill, and I'd imagine that most of the loot is claimed by the big movers and shakers of the world, organizations or nations, rather than people.

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Old 03-23-2011, 07:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

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You might be able to refine dragon's blood (or some other fluid) into an imperishable lamp oil. Perhaps if you concentrate the natural mana appropriately the resulting oil (ichor/suspension/fluid) will sustain flame without being consumed.
Easily. This would be one of the simplest and least expensive alchemical processes that the dragon could be useful for. And it's just such things that the Red Wizards that bought the carcass from the PCs will use to make their profit. But for the PCs themselves? Not powerful enough.

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If dragons are creatures of supernatural majesty perhaps some fragment of that remains - imagine the potency of a throne carved from the petrified heart of a giant dragon. A mantle made from the heartstrings. A scepter made of a tine from the dragon's cranial frill, topped with the obsidian remains of the beast's last meal.
Now there, on the other hand, we might be talking.

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A dragon that size will make a lot of steaks - perhaps dragon jerky gives PCs Temperature Tolerance by warming them in blizzards?
I'm sure the Red Wizards will find a way to market this.

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Does the dragon's flesh or humours have a supernatural association with flame, rather than merely a suffusion of fire magic? When properly 'cleansed,' a poultice of dragon marrow might draw out fever by sucking all the Fire from a sick human.
I can't see why not.

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On the other hand, perhaps preparations made from the Dragon's spleen are replete with hot-burning rage - potent materials for Berzerker potions and the like.
Indeed.

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Dragon's liver powder could be a potent antiseptic - burning an infected wound of contaminants.
Yes, I suppose it could. The alchemical paste that the PCs buy for their field hospitals could probably use some parts from the dragon.

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Dragon's Bile is a potent poison - causing intense fever, replete with delirium and hallucinations of fire and death, before cooking the victim's brain in his skull. Maybe in small doses (or prepared differently) the hallucinations are useful - allowing you to see fire magic. Or intuitively understand the weaving of the crimson threads in the tapestry of fate - foreseeing destruction or conflagration, but nothing else (different dragon for that, honey).
All possible.

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Preparations of kidney can purify large volumes of water, which will remain scalding hot for far longer than it should. And it'll taste funny.
Probably little demand for this.

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The adrenal glands (and other parts of the endocrine system, assuming dragons have such things) might be subtler poisons - limited sorts of chemical mind control, driving people into rage, or fostering hate or superiority or contempt - potentially useful, given inventive PCs.
Indeed it could.

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Preparations of the gonads will (of course) give potent... potence.
And this is why the Red Wizards are prepared to donate the equivalent of $24,000,000 in labour on parts of the dragon in return for being allowed to keep what is left. The PCs will never use all 1400 tons of dragons and many of the remaining parts will make the Red Wizards even fantastically richer.


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You said above that dragon's eat rocks and digest them in the fiery furnace of
their stomach. Do they have intestines? You could make some great sausage casings that will never split open on the grill! Actually, given the size of the beast, those casings are probably made from the walls of the smaller blood vessels.
Sausages? Sausages?

What are you, a halfling?

You don't eat a primordial entity of incomparable majesty!

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The intestines or stomach could make a fabulous bag for a hot-air balloon or zeppelin, though! Perhaps it'd have enough heat left in it to float without fuel!
Hmmm...

One PC wants flying ships. He's in talks with some gnomes about alchemical ways to make them fly. He might want to check this out.

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A talon (or the tip of a pointed tail) could make a pretty nifty enchanted plow, that cleaves effortlessly through field stones.
I wonder how big the talons are. The dragon is 150 meters from tip to tail and weighs 1,400 tons. Considering the tail as not a part of the body proper, it's about 30 times larger in all dimensions as a human being (though obviously not of the same shape). How long are talons scaled up to that size? How wide? How heavy?

On the other hand, the PCs are not really swords-into-plowshares kind of people. If it can shear through things, it ought, in their opinion, be shearing through their innumerable enemies.

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A rib would make a great keel for a ship - if it's a timere or bireme imagine what damage that ram would do an enemy vessel! The keel might have such an elemental repulsion from the sea that the top speed of such a vessel would substantially exceed that of similar ships.
Now there's a thought!

The PCs will need to add to their fleet in this part of the world. They were considering a few brigs or cutters, but perhaps they ought to bend to local customs and get a few coastal galleys instead. Made of dragon ribs.

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I'm sure I can think of another couple dozen... bigger/more expensive vs. smaller/more individual? A dragon of that size has got to be a pretty rare kill, and I'd imagine that most of the loot is claimed by the big movers and shakers of the world, organizations or nations, rather than people.
Increasingly, the PCs are big movers and shakers in the world. They control a mercenary company of 2000 men, a rapidly expanding navy of seven warships and more than a thousand men and they are intervening in a war between two nation states with the covert support of the third.

Each PC is going to pick out magical stuff worth $2,400,000, at $25/energy point if it is made from apposite dragon parts ($40/energy point if they want something else). But given that the magical parts of the dragon are worth more than an order of magnitude more*, they'll be in an excellent position to bargain for more stuff if there is anything they have to have. They do have ships loaded with gold, trade goods, diamonds and other magical stuff, after all.

*But the wizards were the only group able to buy and use it before most of it went bad, so the PCs were never going to get anything close to full price. What they got was a small miracle, the result of a PC with Luck and Merchant 25.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

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Sausages? Sausages?

What are you, a halfling?

You don't eat a primordial entity of incomparable majesty!
Well, maybe you don't...

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Increasingly, the PCs are big movers and shakers in the world. They control a mercenary company of 2000 men, a rapidly expanding navy of seven warships and more than a thousand men and they are intervening in a war between two nation states with the covert support of the third.

Each PC is going to pick out magical stuff worth $2,400,000, at $25/energy point if it is made from apposite dragon parts ($40/energy point if they want something else). But given that the magical parts of the dragon are worth more than an order of magnitude more*, they'll be in an excellent position to bargain for more stuff if there is anything they have to have. They do have ships loaded with gold, trade goods, diamonds and other magical stuff, after all.

*But the wizards were the only group able to buy and use it before most of it went bad, so the PCs were never going to get anything close to full price. What they got was a small miracle, the result of a PC with Luck and Merchant 25.
Ahh, well, changes the tone of things just a bit, huh? Your guys aren't gonna be into the sort of stuff my guys are into - I kill off my parties in favor of new campaigns too often to let anyone get that powerful! I like my players to feel a certain sense of terror.

Anyway, airships out of inflatable parts (you can stretch intestine casing pretttty big - on a dragon that size there's no reason you couldn't get substantial weights aloft), ships out of ribs, Vast Quantities of consumable goods with various tactical and strategic benefits for their terrible Company,

Perhaps a field canopy made from the wing membrane. Anyone seated under it appears powerful and majestic, and perhaps a touch cruel, to outside observers. Great place to receive people who want to buy your services, or meet the leaders of conquered cities.

A Pennant made of Red Dragon Scales on a pole of carved dragon bone has got to be a terrifying thing even to hardened enemies, once the story of how you killed this thing gets out.

If you're the terrifying spikes and red plate mercenaries, perhaps I could interest you in a set of dragonhide battle drums, stretched over a frame of metacarpals. If you're the regimental, perfect-soldier mercenaries, you'll probably be more interested in my metacarpal straight horns. Either will give friendly regiments who hear the battle music a boost of ferocity and determination.

Appropriately hot-cured Mana Organ Chunks, suspended (carefully) in oil in a heavy ceramic or wooden shell can be launched from catapults for a tremendously effective siege weapon probably equivalent to TL 6 artillery.

...

I'll keep thinking.

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Old 03-24-2011, 08:03 AM   #30
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Default Re: Magic items made from Great Red Dragon's corpse

TL 3+1 Power Armour.

Hovertank made of the chest cavity with spinal-mounted bone tube railgun firing FAE rounds.

Magma descending bathysphere from the skull.

A really big, very cool, fireplace rug.
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