Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Dirk Desiato

I like there to be "risk/reward" in games so how about this for pole weapons?; Keep the double damage for charging with pole weapons but if the attack missed then the pole weapon is "unready" and the "Step and Ready" option must be used before the pole weapon can be used again. Think of the attacker overreaching and their opponent getting inside the pointy part. There could be the option of charging as if it was a non-pole weapon to avoid having it being unready if it misses.

I like it. That's a great example of a rule change that both "nerfs" pole weapons (without actually nerfing them) and requires minimum rules intervention to accomplish. Plus it's both logical and easily understood. In short -- a perfect example of a KISS rules change...

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by JLV

I like it. That's a great example of a rule change that both "nerfs" pole weapons (without actually nerfing them) and requires minimum rules intervention to accomplish. ...

I everyone, Dirk, JLV.
I also like this rule. In a one second turn (like GURPS) an unballanced weapon is unready after it is swung. So a heavy mace can swing every 2nd turn. In the 5 second turns of TFT, you can swing that mace every turn which makes sense. (However that mace can't take advantage of the Fencing talent.)

However a 3 meter long pole arm taking a full 5 seconds to pull back and make ready seems more likely.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Dirk Desiato

I like there to be "risk/reward" in games so how about this for pole weapons?; Keep the double damage for charging with pole weapons but if the attack missed then the pole weapon is "unready" and the "Step and Ready" option must be used before the pole weapon can be used again. Think of the attacker overreaching and their opponent getting inside the pointy part. There could be the option of charging as if it was a non-pole weapon to avoid having it being unready if it misses.

If not implementing a rule where an attack vs. the pole weapon itself is used to knock it away (which always happens before the pole weapon attack but at whatever DX the attacker has) and effectively neutralize the charge but at the expense of one's own attack (and either could fail), then I like this possibility.

You could even just say that a pole weapon is unready after a charge attack, regardless of hit or miss. Sometimes surely it takes a few seconds to free your pole weapon from the body of the recipient, if not just from having someone get inside the point of your weapon. ;) This might just be the simplest, fairest fix yet.

[Steve Jackson]

Having played with pole weapons in the SCA, I can say that it takes a whole lot less than five seconds to reready one if you have the strength to handle it in the first place. (A big IF there. I used a spear, not a halberd. Those were for the BIG guys.)

If course, SCA weapons don't get stuck in the bodies of your foes unless you are doing something terribly wrong :)

Here is what the current draft looks like - basically, the most popular house rule for nerfing BIG polearms - you will have to imagine the diagram but I expect everyone here can "see" it in their head.

---

POLE WEAPONS
The javelin, spear, halberd, and pike axe are “pole weapons.”
A figure which charge-attacks (option b) with a pole weapon does an extra 1 die of damage if it hits, provided the last three hexes of its movement were in a straight line. This line may be either “with the grain” or “against the grain” of the hex map. See diagram


Straight line diagram goes here.






Straight line Straight line
“with the grain” “against the grain”
(either direction)

A figure which uses a pole weapon against any charge-attacking foe also does an extra die of damage if it hits.
If a figure with a pole weapon stays in the same hex on the turn an enemy charges it (whether it changes facing or not), then it gets +2 DX with the pole weapon against that enemy.

[JLV]

That seems to have been one of the most popular solutions! Thanks for sharing...

[ecz]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

POLE WEAPONS
The javelin, spear, halberd, and pike axe are “pole weapons.”
A figure which charge-attacks (option b) with a pole weapon does an extra 1 die of damage if it hits, provided the last three hexes of its movement were in a straight line. T
A figure which uses a pole weapon against any charge-attacking foe also does an extra die of damage if it hits.
If a figure with a pole weapon stays in the same hex on the turn an enemy charges it (whether it changes facing or not), then it gets +2 DX with the pole weapon against that enemy.

good compromise, but I still prefer the "GURPS solution", double only the damage that penetrates any armor/shield/protection.

Example:
Kihir the Barbarian charges the orc with his T-H spear and rolls 1+1 damage.
He gets 5 hit points. The Orc has a small shield and a cloth, so he takes 3 hits, doubled to 6 for the charge.

Plain and simple since no extra die is necessary.

This rules gives also a further good reason to wear armor and/or a shield, that is always a good thing since their usefulness is often understimated.

[ecz]

and now that I remember, to add chrome in my games I added that a pole weapons making 12 or more hits possibly stucks in the target's body. The Pole Weapon User must roll immediatly a 4D/ST to extract the weapon from the body, or the weapon remains stuck.

In any subsequent turn the attacker can try to free the weapon rolling 4D/ST as sole action of the turn, assuming he still holds the weapon and the enemy is willing, dead or inconscious (otherwise he cannot try). The victim can try to extract the weapon by himself too rolling 4D/ST.
Any attempt, failed or successfull, causes automatically another die of damage (armor does not count).

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

A figure which charge-attacks (option b) with a pole weapon does an extra 1 die of damage

I've generally preferred the double damage. The problems with the +1+0 solution is that at low ST it's a huge deal but at high ST the polearm is just slightly more effective in a charge and slightly less in regular melee, in other words not very different from a sword. The pikeax, for example, will do 3+2 instead of 3+0 in the charge and 2+2 instead of 3+0 in regular melee, in other words it doesn't make a lot of difference which you have. It's a reduction in variety, and variety is interesting, and gives players the ability to make decisions that affect their character.

A better answer might be to just reduce the damage of pole weapons. I think javelin 1-1, spear(1) 1+0, spear(2) 1+1, halberd 1+2, pikeax 2+0 gives reasonable answers, this might even be generous if we take into account that the pole weapons also get jab and first attack advantages. (There are also cleverer, more radical solutions.)

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

...
Here is what the current draft looks like - basically, the most popular house rule for nerfing BIG polearms ...

POLE WEAPONS
The javelin, spear, halberd, and pike axe are “pole weapons.”
A figure which charge-attacks (option b) with a pole weapon does an extra 1 die of damage if it hits, provided the last three hexes of its movement were in a straight line. This line may be either “with the grain” or “against the grain” of the hex map. See diagram ...

A figure which uses a pole weapon against any charge-attacking foe also does an extra die of damage if it hits.
If a figure with a pole weapon stays in the same hex on the turn an enemy charges it (whether it changes facing or not), then it gets +2 DX with the pole weapon against that enemy.

Hi everyone, Steve.
We have the first rule question about the new TFT rules. I copied your post to some of the people using my rules, and an argument started over what was meant.

I've bolded a line above.

If I have a pole weapon and someone moves 1 hex towards me (which IS a charge attack), do I do the +1 die damage? Or do they have to move 3+ hexes for me to get this bonus?

When I wrote my rules, I created a '3+ hex charge'. (Which is a 3 or more hex charge in a 'straight' line.) If you mean the second interpretation, you might want to write the rule as:

A figure which uses a pole weapon against a charge-attacking foe (who makes a 3+ hex charge) also does an extra die of damage if it hits.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Steve Jackson]

I thought about that exact addition, and the current draft omits it for (a) simplicity (b) to make those facing pole weapons show a little respect when running up on them.

Does that work?