Monster Hunters by Gaslight - Whitechapel, London, Hell?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by SteampengMK-1

The apache revolver and or A modified lemats revolver might be more your speed.

Icelander isn't setting up a campaign. He has one already running, and the PCs have a very limited time to arm their followers with what they can find or make, in a limited - and poverty-stricken - area of London at a specific date. As GM, he's applying a much stricter standard of realism about equipment and logistics than seems to be common for modern-day Monster Hunters campaigns.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by SteampengMK-1

well I mainly deal with the exotics and the odd ducks, Though I can tell you that an dragon breath does a little more then light up the night.

The apache revolver and or A modified lemats revolver might be more your speed.

Originally Posted by johndallman

Icelander isn't setting up a campaign. He has one already running, and the PCs have a very limited time to arm their followers with what they can find or make, in a limited - and poverty-stricken - area of London at a specific date. As GM, he's applying a much stricter standard of realism about equipment and logistics than seems to be common for modern-day Monster Hunters campaigns.

Indeed so.

Though I note that the Docklands would not be an unreasonable place to find all sorts of foreign-made merchandise, including the Apache pistol (more properly, the Dolne Revolver Combine). The primary problem is that it is not very useful. The pinfire cartridges are hardly powerful enough for self-defence at any range over a couple of feet, there is in any case no mechanism to aim them for longer shots, the folding dagger blade is ridiculously short and as a knuckleduster, it is encumbered by a plethora of moving parts. Finally, the all-things-to-all-men design means that it is actually harder to conceal than a proper pocket pistol, a proper dagger and a proper knuckleduster.

One thing to keep in mind, however, is that carrying a pistol for self-defence was not only socially acceptable, it was encouraged by society. Any man who had occasion to walk rough areas at night and who could afford one would probably have a pocket pistol.

The problem with finding a lot of them in the East End is the part about being able to afford one. I do find some references to 'cheap German revolvers' in period sources, but have so far been unable to find what weapons those might be. The German revolers in High-Tech: Adventure Guns are military models, chambered for a heavy round and not at all inexpensive. Indeed, most of the weapons I find there are worth several month's of full time work pay for a typical East End worker and thus unsuitable for ownership except by the prosperous among them. I am very desirous to find whether there were pocket pistols in smaller calibers than .442 RIC or .450 Adams, which might be less expensive and more common.

I do think that many of the survivors, especially those male survivors who were merely passing through Whitechapel at the time of the catastrophe, will carry some form of self-defence weapon. Let us not forget that at this precise moment in time, the prosperous citizens of the area were banding together into vigilante bands to hunt 'Saucy Jack' and I imagine that most everyone connected to a Vigilance Committee would go about with a pocket pistol, sword stick, a stout cudgel or a knife. Even if less than 5% of men outside were carrying a pistol, the brutal self-selection inherent in weeding out those not capable of surviving an attack by a stray cat twisted into a demonic flesh-eating creature, or perhaps a gaggle of rats, would insure that those armed in some fashion were more likely to reach sanctuary in a church.

However, few will have carried spare ammunition and most will have already fired their weapons in order to kill or scare away feral creatures or other survivors, twisted or crazed through some mystical means. There will thus be plenty of empty pocket pistols, but those are no good for defenders unless more ammunition can be found.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I do find some references to 'cheap German revolvers' in period sources, but have so far been unable to find what weapons those might be. ... I am very desirous to find whether there were pocket pistols in smaller calibers than .442 RIC or .450 Adams, which might be less expensive and more common.

A lot of those guns seem to have been Belgian-made copies of American or British designs, sold through German distributors to improve their image. If you take the Reid My Friend from Adventure Guns, apply the Cheap modifiers to it, and select randomly from the calibres listed in its notes, you won't go far wrong. There was another calibre that would be used, "Velo-Dog", which is approximately equivalent to .22 Short, but not interchangeable.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

A lot of those guns seem to have been Belgian-made copies of American or British designs, sold through German distributors to improve their image.

Good point. I note that in Adventure Guns, I can find evidence that the British Bulldog was widely copied in Belgium, Germany, France, US and elsewhere. Many would be in .450 Centerfire, as well as .320 Centerfire and .380 Centerfire near the turn of the century, but I don't know if there were earlier rimfire versions and what chamberings those used. There exists some Continental 8mm revolver cartridge that would use same or similar GURPS stats as .32 CF, but is not interchangable with it, but I'm not sure whether foreign copies of Bulldogs that were sold in England would be chambered for it.

It is not noted in HT:AG that the S&W No. 1 in .22 Short was copied by others than the initial maker, but I am confident that this gun was, indeed, copied in Belgium and elsewhere. How common it was, however, I do not know. It might be that .22 Short was a common pocket pistol round, but if so, I have not yet found evidence lending direct support to such a contention.

I understand that British double-barreled boxlock pocket pistols in a variety of calibers would be typical cheap self-defence weapons. I imagine that .320 CF and .380 CF would have been somewhat popular, in addition to the more effective calibers of .44 Short Rimfire, .442 Enfield, .442 RIC, .450 Adams, .455 Webley or .476 Enfield. The 24-bore (or the .577 Boxer) would be the apogee of the self-defence calibers, unless one were to carry a howdah pistol in .577 Snider.

The Colt Model 1849 Pocket in .31 Caplock would be a very desirable pocket pistol in the previous generation and if it was copied in Europe (and perhaps existed in cartridge conversions), it might still be around as a cheap alternative to modern weapons. In much the same way, pepperbox revolvers like the Allen that the PCs have already found are fairly likely to be a cheap alternative to more modern double-action revolvers. I don't know the names of any prolific manufacturer selling on the English market, however.

The S&W No. 2 Army in .32 Short and the Colt .41 House Pistol ('Cloverleaf') would both be very practical self-defence weapons if they were easily available in London and/or copied in Europe. I don't know if they were, however, or who made them if they were copied.

The bigger Lefaucheux Mle1854 and S&W No. 3 revolvers are also noted in HT:AG as having been very commonly copied in Belgium, Germany and elsewhere. They could be carried by those who desire something bigger than a pocket gun.

If they were reasonably common, copies of cartridge conversions for the Adams, Colt No. 5 ('Paterson') and Colt Navy might be reasonable weapons for poor-ish, but protection-minded sailors or vagabonds near the dock to have acess to. Alas, I have no information on whether Belgian, French, German or British gunsmiths made cheaper copies of these that would be available as out-of-date and economical arms in the late 19th century. The nearest I can figure are the various calibers available for the Tranter revolver, which came in a variety of them, including .36, .44 and .50. They were made in caplock, rimfire and centerfire versions, but I'm not sure about the common calibers for the latter two.

Originally Posted by johndallman

If you take the Reid My Friend from Adventure Guns, apply the Cheap modifiers to it, and select randomly from the calibres listed in its notes, you won't go far wrong.

You may be right, but I was afraid that the Reid My Friend was a fairly specific pepperbox design and not all that representative of the most common weapons. Wouldn't a double be cheaper and simpler to make?

Originally Posted by johndallman

There was another calibre that would be used, "Velo-Dog", which is approximately equivalent to .22 Short, but not interchangeable.

The French Velo Dog pistol was introduced, I believe, in 1895. It is possible that the cartridge you speak of preceded it, but I have so far not seen any evidence of it.

Posts on looted weaponry and survivor armaments:
Please make any future replies to weapon-related posts in the thread for looting and improvising weaponry, keeping this thread for discussing the campaign in general, recapping events if I'm really diligent and suggesting local colour, threats and plot twists.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

There are no pirate wrecks in the Thames. If you really want to be frightening to the English, send in an undead version of the Dutch fleet from the Raid on the Medway, led by de Ruyter. It remains the greatest naval disaster in British history.

Well, I doubt that the Dutch sailors and soldiers have much cause to be upset with the English crown after all this time. Just doing their duty. Added to which, most of them will have died at home, long after their warlike service.

But the two English traitor pilots are interesting possibilities. Is there any record of what happened to them?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

But the two English traitor pilots are interesting possibilities. Is there any record of what happened to them?

Not much that I can find on a quick look, but there's a bit here.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, I doubt that the Dutch sailors and soldiers have much cause to be upset with the English crown after all this time. Just doing their duty. Added to which, most of them will have died at home, long after their warlike service.

But the two English traitor pilots are interesting possibilities. Is there any record of what happened to them?

It's not clear what happened to the anonymous smuggler, but Captain Robert Holland got an unexpected royal pardon, and wound up offering his services to the English Crown during the next outbreak of hostilities with the Dutch. It's a nice story, but not useful in the context of a horror story.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Miles

It's not clear what happened to the anonymous smuggler, but Captain Robert Holland got an unexpected royal pardon, and wound up offering his services to the English Crown during the next outbreak of hostilities with the Dutch. It's a nice story, but not useful in the context of a horror story.

It is very interesting. Where can I find out more?

Sounds like the anonymous smuggler will receive a villainous upgrade in my game, starting with his (hitherto unrecorded) translation to 'glory' during the raid, pitching forward from the deck of a Dutch ship with grapeshot in his belly, dying slowly in the Thames mud.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Miles

It's not clear what happened to the anonymous smuggler, but Captain Robert Holland got an unexpected royal pardon.

Interestingly enough, he's not the only Robert Holland to get a royal pardon for treason...

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Icelander

It is very interesting. Where can I find out more?

Sounds like the anonymous smuggler will receive a villainous upgrade in my game, starting with his (hitherto unrecorded) translation to 'glory' during the raid, pitching forward from the deck of a Dutch ship with grapeshot in his belly, dying slowly in the Thames mud.

Pulled my information from Arthur Bryant's book on Samuel Pepys, here.