01-25-2012, 07:22 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
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[TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
In a situation where a tactical team is sweeping a building and a shooter is 'slicing the pie'
Am I correct in assuming this is excecuted as one step per round at a time? So one step, roll to spot (or it may be automatic succes) and the shooter may shoot if there is a target, but does not shoot if there is none. He announces in advance if he wants to evaluate before firing, for -2 to-hit. If there is an enemy with a Wait he may also shoot, and this is the time to roll Quick contests to see who shoots first, right? But if there is an enemy without a Wait, you just shot him? If there is no target you take another step in the same round? This sounds almost like a Move-and-Wait manoeuvre, but there is no such a thing? The alternative would be to declare a Move-and Attack right? To rush in and shoot if anybody is there. An enemy with a Wait may very well shoot faster than you. So it is not recommended unless you're in a hurry! But can you declare this and *not* shoot if there is no target? Is this similar to the -2 for evaluate? To say "I rush in and shoot at any target whatsoever, but if there is none then naturally I don't shoot"?
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01-25-2012, 07:40 AM | #2 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
The examples I've seen on TV have all been faster than 1 yard/second, from what I remember. I'd call that a special version of Move-and-Attack, rather than 'step->wait->step->wait->step->shoot'.
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01-25-2012, 07:45 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
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It sounds like a series of Step-and-Attack (if there *is* a target), moving at 1 ys/sec. I asked because I also presume a faster slice rate. Mmmmmm slice... That was why I saw this as a good opportunity to come up with an exception to Wait to allow some move. I think half move would be apporpriate, or even Move/3. AFter all an AoA(determined-Ranged) allows half move, but only forwards - and I assuem this means in the direction you are facing, which IMHO is forwards regardless of how the legs are pointing. Is there no longer a 'pop-up shot modifiers like there was in 3rd ed? Meaning a penalty for not having the target visible until you yourself moved (or stood up) to bring it into sight.
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01-25-2012, 08:04 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
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It does not say this explicitly, but I would treat this like a Step and Concentrate maneuver. See Situational Awareness, TS11. In game terms, you also avoid Bulk penalties. The reason you go slow is so that you can see the guy first, and so that no more of you is visible than necessary. More cover, means a harder shot for him. Stealth is involved as well, since you could very well ease out, see him, and shoot him before he sees you. It can take a long time to clear a building this way. If you have to move in on a bad guy taking the Wait maneuver there are two ways: rush him and cause a Fright Check, or approach him while using maximum cover. By slicing the pie, if you spy him and are undetected, you can then move back into cover, alert your partner or support team, and decide how to attack. A SWAT team or military squad might use explosives or flash bangs. A couple of cops searching a reported B&E might quietly switch places -- bringing the single long gun between them into the front position, say. Gesture helps here! Or they may decide to rush the guy and scare him into surrendering. Ready on 1, 2, 3 . . . "Freeze!, Freeze!, Drop the gun!, Drop the gun!, Drop the gun!, Drop the gun! . . ." |
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01-25-2012, 08:11 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
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On could also assume that is an enemy heard you approach - os suspects somebody is coming - he'll Wait. But indisciplined or hurried enemies migth not keep this up for very long, so a multi-round-slicer may not see the enemy (or vice versa) until several seconds later where the enemy may have started moving. But this is merely a thought experiment. Using flash-bangs to initiate the rush should mean it is ok to hurry using MaA.
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01-25-2012, 08:16 AM | #6 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
I talked with Kromm and Hans about "Step and Wait." They both think it's fine, and this is how pie-slicing should be treated.
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01-25-2012, 08:23 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
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But then again I often do ;) Edit: But only Step-and... not Move-and...? So it's still the slow method at 1 yd/sec. For a faster version it's just Move-and-Attack with the clause that the -2 for evaluating also allows you to not shoot if there are no targets. Of course you still need to roll Vision to spot the target in the first place. But the slow slice allows you to use Sighted Shooting or what? So the Reflex Sight is usable? And the fast slice only allows unsighted shots and hence only tactical lights and laser aimpoints?
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Playing GURPS since '90, is now fluent in 4th ed as well. Last edited by Ultraviolet; 01-25-2012 at 08:35 AM. |
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01-25-2012, 08:26 AM | #8 | ||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
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My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon Last edited by DouglasCole; 01-25-2012 at 09:24 AM. |
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01-25-2012, 10:32 AM | #9 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
Done properly, this is somewhat slow and precise. The object isn't to rush, but not to get shot or grabbed. Moving quickly around corners is done when time is of the essence (bombs ticking, hostages dying, etc.), but that isn't the same maneuver. People trained to slice the pie will still move as if they were doing it and look where they're supposed to look – that's the power of training – but they'll be operating too quickly to be guaranteed the initiative if someone is waiting. In game terms, they'll be walking the same path but without a Wait against their enemies.
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01-26-2012, 12:42 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
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Re: [TS] Slicing the pie, a question?
Quote:
But how is the timing against a Waiting and stationary target? The SWAT officer makes repeated Step-and-Waits around the corner, until he get LOS on a target. Assuming he maes his Per roll to spot the enemy, who shoots first? Both have a wait going, so do they roll for speed as normal? Is there any difference in the fact that the SWAT guy is moving and the other is stationary? I'd be tempted to give the stationary party a slight bonus to shoot first. Which is why this is best preceeded by a flash-bang grenade. However looking at TS p10 the box lists rules for "neither fighter has ready weapon" and "one party has ready weapon" - not "both have ready weapon"?
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Playing GURPS since '90, is now fluent in 4th ed as well. |
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