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Old 02-10-2018, 08:16 PM   #21
Minuteman37
 
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

Are people suggesting we don't do turn based combat?

GURPS could totally be the engine behind a X-com or Shadow Run style asymmetrical RPG.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

Turn-based action would definitely be an option for a video game (it might also be easier to code), though I think that something like Elder Scrolls or Fallout is also a possibility. The key thing would be making it balanced. You could probably have a character go from 200 CP to 400 CP without difficulty, going much beyond 400 CP might be problematic though.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:26 PM   #23
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

Real time combat is do-able use a setup similar to "black and white" or "port royale" where you click on an opponent to strike, defences are handled with an automatic "best defense first". Relative aggression can be handled by the mouse wheel, all out defense through all out attack. While not perfect its 80% of the way there.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
Are people suggesting we don't do turn based combat?
If my goal was a max fidelity GURPS implementation, turn based. If my goal was a good game, not turn based. Turns are a necessary evil in tabletop games, not a feature.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Turn-based action would definitely be an option for a video game (it might also be easier to code), though I think that something like Elder Scrolls or Fallout is also a possibility.
Fallout was turn based (and so were Fallout 2 and Tactics).
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
.

So what I think would need changing or dropping?
!

Everything to nothing.

The rules have to fit whatever sort of game it is.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:53 AM   #27
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
Yep, just look at how scoring works in Minecraft.
There's scoring in Minecraft?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
If my goal was a max fidelity GURPS implementation, turn based. If my goal was a good game, not turn based.
We couldn't disagree more.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Everything to nothing.

The rules have to fit whatever sort of game it is.
Best answer.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:55 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
There's scoring in Minecraft?
Yes, there is, it's your current XP total, it's displayed when you die.

So for turns in general technically all games are turn based, those that appear real time just have very short turns and automatic turn progression. The problem with turns in GURPS is that they're too short and a player has to do too many decisions too make. That's not a problem in single player, but it is in multiplayer.
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:51 AM   #29
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

Wow, now here's a topic near and dear to my heart. I often find myself playing video games and thinking about what they would be like if they were based on GURPS rules. When I read this, I couldn't help but reply!

In my opinion, GURPS could be used as the rule set behind a great many games. The changes needed to the rules would, obviously, depend on the game, but I think scc started out in a good direction thinking that rules needing a lot of GM judgment calls would need adjustment. I don't think such rules would have to go entirely, but certainly they would need more definitive boundaries on their effects.

Gadgeteering is a good example of an ability that is very open-ended with regard to what it allows, but I could see this advantage being the basis of the research and invention activities in a game like X-COM. Obviously, the game would restrict what kinds of gadgets would be possible, such as limiting the devices to handheld weapons, exoskeletons, tools, or other equipment usable in small scale tactical engagements by troops; weaponry and defensive capabilities for ships; and ground-based defenses for rebel bases to repel alien invasions. Of course, there are other possibilities, but just these few areas could lead to a wealth of options for players to choose from when coming up with new gadgets in the game. In a game like X-COM, I could see these activities being performed by NPCs, but those NPCs could be defined using GURPS rules.

For a game with real-time combat like Skyrim or Fallout, I could see the active defense rules being abstracted into an automated best defense first type of system without the player having to explicitly choose a defense each second, and I think that would work fine. This would not be a change to the rules though, but rather just a way to implement the rules in the world of a video game without requiring player input. Similarly, a game wouldn't have the player actually roll dice to initiate an attack, but could generate a random number between 3 and 18 in the background and apply the appropriate modifiers to determine whether an attack hits or not when the player presses the attack button. To allow some of the GURPS rules like Telegraphic Attacks, Deceptive Attacks, aiming for a specific hit location, etc., the player could have the ability to configure their attacks outside of combat (in town or at a campsite for DF). The number of attack configurations allowed could be based on skill level, so Broadsword-12 for example wouldn't give as many configurations as Broadsword-16. A configuration could be something like Committed Attack + Hit Location: Leg + Deceptive -4. Each configuration option could be mapped to a different button for easy use during combat like powers or using items on a quick bar.

I could see a lot of games in many genres being able to use GURPS rules as the core of the game. It would be interesting to see a JRPG style game like Final Fantasy Tactics or a game with turn-based tactical combat scenarios like X-COM played out on a hex grid and using all the GURPS rules for ranged combat, cover, suppression fire, posture changes, weapons with reach, hit locations, bleeding, and close combat (even Technical Grappling!), just to name a few. I could see a 4X strategy game like Civilization or Stellaris that used GURPS rules for TL, gadgeteering, and inventions as the basis of technology research; rules for Mass Combat and Spaceships to resolve large scale combats; rules for skills, wealth, jobs, and other traits for the basis of production, economy, and effectiveness of heroes or named units performing various tasks. I could see a super hero themed action RPG like Marvel Ultimate Alliance or X-men Legends using GURPS as the basis for character advancement (I've always been fascinated by the idea of the inherent balancing in the system between upgrading powers vs. buying more skills, social traits, etc.), and using the rules for DR and HP for structures when determining the effects of various powers on the environment (e.g., blasting through walls with eye beams). I could also see any game featuring pirates (air or water) using GURPS vehicle and/or spaceship rules for combats between ships.

Suffice it to say I see a lot of potential here. I recognize the likelihood of something like this coming to fruition is probably not that high, but it is certainly a fun topic of discussion for me at least.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

After posting my long reply, I had two other thoughts on this topic I felt were worth sharing.

First, I have some thoughts on the topic of levels and the need for them or not in video games. In this area, I agree with the posters that say levels are not needed. Sure, they may be a prominent feature in many popular video games, but they are hardly a requirement. In a GURPS-based game, character point total could serve the same niche that level serves, more or less, as an indicator of relative forward progress for a character. As we all know, CP totals do not map directly to combat effectiveness, but they are absolutely a measure of progress. When and how much CP to award and for what tasks are all issues that would require answers specific to the video game being imagined, but I do not believe having levels is any kind of requirement for a video game. If it matters, I could see grouping the positive/negative points into the Physical, Mental, and Social buckets (as Advantages and Disadvantages are tagged in the Basic Set). This doesn't tell you much but a 200 CP character with 80/-10 points in Social traits may not be as effective in combat as a character with only 10/-40 points in Social traits. Of course, it would also be easy in a video game to automatically calculate a character's Challenge Effectiveness Rating which is a better measure of combat effectiveness.

Second, I was thinking about survival mode I've seen in some video games lately (e.g., Fallout 4). Some hardcore gamers really want a challenge beyond simply bashing on bad guys, so survival mode typically provides that by forcing players to consider encumbrance, eating/drinking, sleeping, staying protected in extreme temperatures, avoiding disease, and limited save opportunities. From what I have experienced in these modes, they do add interesting elements to the game, but dealing with some is either easily avoid (e.g., extreme cold is avoided by wearing warm enough clothing) or uncontrollably annoying (e.g., randomly catching a disease that is difficult to cure while sleeping). GURPS nicely provides many gradual effects to deal with these situations like FP loss from missed sleep, starvation, dehydration, heat, and cold. GURPS could expand in many areas by using the rules for FP loss for overexertion, running, and swimming; applying effects from acids, irritating and incapacitating conditions, pressure effects, and suffocation to name a few. GURPS also has extensive rules for diseases, poisons, and infections from wounds. If you wanted to get really harsh about it, you could even employ The Last Gasp rules. When it comes to survival mode, I think GURPS has a great framework for applying real consequences to ignoring your character's needs.

Last edited by wmervine4; 02-11-2018 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Added a little more elaboration on my thoughts about the need for levels.
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