Banestormed Academics

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Chaucer spoke Middle English.

Correct, Old English is the language of Beowulf.

However, Chaucer scholars would have an easier time with the Anglo-French amalgam that is the standard language of Yttarria.

Easier than a modern speaker would, yes.

In retrospect, I'm a little surprised at the "heavy Norman-French influence" cited for Anglish in Banestorm since I would have argued that Anglish might have less (and later) French influence than our own world's English. The English-speakers that came to Ytarria had had less time under Norman rule and the earliest ones, from 1050-1066, would still have been under Saxon kings. Granted, they'd have been cheek-by-jowl with transplanted Normans in their new world, but the same could be said of transplanted Germans or other "crusader" nations.

Our own language already has a heavy Norman-French influence despite its Germanic roots. With other languages and cultures at relatively close proximity, it's possible French might not reassert its influence here until the arrival of the Aralaise.

My own two cents, anyway. Your mileage may vary. (The authors' certainly did! <g>)

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Easier than a modern speaker would, yes.

In retrospect, I'm a little surprised at the "heavy Norman-French influence" cited for Anglish in Banestorm since I would have argued that Anglish might have less (and later) French influence than our own world's English. The English-speakers that came to Ytarria had had less time under Norman rule and the earliest ones, from 1050-1066, would still have been under Saxon kings. Granted, they'd have been cheek-by-jowl with transplanted Normans in their new world, but the same could be said of transplanted Germans or other "crusader" nations.

Our own language already has a heavy Norman-French influence despite its Germanic roots. With other languages and cultures at relatively close proximity, it's possible French might not reassert its influence here until the arrival of the Aralaise.

My own two cents, anyway. Your mileage may vary. (The authors' certainly did! <g>)

Fairly solid, but I was thinking of the simple fact that French students (and by that I mean Francophones) normally have an easier time reading Chaucer than Anglophones. Chaucer lived at a time when the English Court spoke French and when the Law Courts of England spoke coherent French (later on they spoke Law French, which is the weird stuff in Malory). Chaucer lived in a world that freely mixed and blended French and English. Chaucer scholars would have a heads-up on strange blends of French and English because that's what they have to study to become Chaucer Scholars.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Yup, the period when most of the French loans were introduced into English actually is 1200/1250-1400. While there were certainly a lot of Anglo-Norman speakers in post-conquest England French exerted its greatest influence when Anglo-Norman had died out as a native language and was replaced by Parisian French acquired through study.

There would, of course, have been a number of Norman nobles transported to Yttarria, but I doubt they would have had such a great influence on the language without close political ties to France.

The canon situation in Banestorm does not make that much sense from a linguistic point of view, but as it stands Middle English scholars would probably have an easy time understanding the natives. Not that this would be impossible for Modern English native speakers or even second language speakers. There would be a lot of pitfalls in casual conversation as the loans would be different and there's no guarantee the Great Vowel Shift took exactly the same course, but if the scholars in question are linguists as well as students of literature (which is usually the case where I'm from) they should be able to figure out what's going on fairly easily.

Latin scholars might have it easier or more difficult. It's likely that the script would still be based on the Carolingian Minuscule and that should be somewhat intelligible, even if Arab, elven and dwarven scripts influenced the development. Spoken Latin, on the other hand, is very little practised nowadays and that means that even if they meet a Latin-speaking priest or scholar they would have to rely on written communication. There's a good chance the spoken Latin would also have an atrocious accent. Probably Middle Age historians would have an easier time than classical Latin scholars, but that should have been pretty clear from the beginning.

Another subject that might be useful would be Anthropology. Since most scenarios so far posit the academics far from human lands contact with non-humans would be considerably easier if there are people who don't just assume that European manners are more or less universal.

[simply Nathan]

I thought the whole point of having Anglish as the language of Yrth was so that people Banestormed there could switch to it from English with little trouble. Introducing realistic linguistic shift kinda interferes with that purpose.

Me, I make a supernatural force hold the Common Tongue in my fantasy worlds recognizable modern English.

[Astromancer]

Try this idea, off the coast of the northern Djinni Lands (near the edge of the Orclands) there is an island about five times the size of Catalina. This mostly infertile, low mana, island has a small fishing/farming settlement led by a Mage and his allies an elderly friar and his sister a nun. The settlement is regularly raided by Orcish pirates (whose normal target is the west coast of Sahud).

The Banestorm delivers the college and a small college town to this island. The physical nature of most of the island is changed drastically rendering the island fertile as first rate midwestern American croplands, and raising the local mana to normal.

The Acedemic year was to start in about a week and it was nearly harvest time on the farms owned by the ag-school. Most of the gradstudents, especially in fields like agriculture, mechanics, and other practical skills, were already there and the town was loaded with supplies. Better luck still, the town arrives at the Yrth equivelent of late April. So they got a whole summer to prepare.

The locals accept the school and the town. The Rotc and the local National Guard eliminate the Pirates (bazookas are good!). And the town established itself. The Mage teaches the several academics, students, and towns-folk, who suddenly find they have magery, Wizardry 101. Later, a Elf-Scout, attracted by a strange mana event, brings the comunity an improved knowledge of both spells and thaumatology.

This community could survive and hopefully thrive. As they're on an alternate Earth to start with, let them have an advanced thorium useing fission power generator to provide reliable electric power.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Correct, Old English is the language of Beowulf.



Easier than a modern speaker would, yes.

In retrospect, I'm a little surprised at the "heavy Norman-French influence" cited for Anglish in Banestorm since I would have argued that Anglish might have less (and later) French influence than our own world's English. The English-speakers that came to Ytarria had had less time under Norman rule and the earliest ones, from 1050-1066, would still have been under Saxon kings. Granted, they'd have been cheek-by-jowl with transplanted Normans in their new world, but the same could be said of transplanted Germans or other "crusader" nations.

Our own language already has a heavy Norman-French influence despite its Germanic roots. With other languages and cultures at relatively close proximity, it's possible French might not reassert its influence here until the arrival of the Aralaise.

My own two cents, anyway. Your mileage may vary. (The authors' certainly did! <g>)

Yrth Anglish likely has Goblin and halfling influences too.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Yrth Anglish likely has Goblin and halfling influences too.

It would have a few loan words, but probably nothing extensive. Goblins and halflings are very much minorities in both senses.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans

I thought the whole point of having Anglish as the language of Yrth was so that people Banestormed there could switch to it from English with little trouble. Introducing realistic linguistic shift kinda interferes with that purpose.

<shrug> That was the rules before 4e when Anglish defaulted to Modern English at -4.

For 4e you couldn't do that mechanically and realistic language rules were used instead. I think Banestorm for 4e was much less aimed at the idea of trasplanting moderns. There was an attempt to market it as a world for generic fantasy adventure which I did not think really went very well.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

The locals accept the school and the town. The Rotc and the local National Guard eliminate the Pirates (bazookas are good!). And the town established itself. The Mage teaches the several academics, students, and towns-folk, who suddenly find they have magery, Wizardry 101. Later, a Elf-Scout, attracted by a strange mana event, brings the comunity an improved knowledge of both spells and thaumatology.

uh...ROTC...ok...national guard...I don't think I can go quite that far...mebbe an armory with some interesting toys the rotize kids can use...maybe maybe an older Master Sarge with the NG Armory call tree (useless now) but a lot of practical military and admin experience...but an actual Guard company (or larger)...that just pushes the disbelief a little much for me...YMMV...but...

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by Witchking

uh...ROTC...ok...national guard...I don't think I can go quite that far...mebbe an armory with some interesting toys the rotize kids can use...maybe maybe an older Master Sarge with the NG Armory call tree (useless now) but a lot of practical military and admin experience...but an actual Guard company (or larger)...that just pushes the disbelief a little much for me...YMMV...but...

I know the University of Minnesota has an armory building on campus. I don't believe there are any weapons there now, but as I understand it, in earlier times it actually was a MNG armory and rallying point (mostly in anticipation of quelling civil unrest and putting down strikes rather than an actual invasion of Canadians or Wisconsinites). It's plausible that a company's worth of small arms might have been stored there as recently as the 1940's; heck, there might be a few Garands gathering cosmoline in the basement to this day.