Banestorm and TL5

[Onkl]

Hi all

I've a question regarding Techlevel and "New Inventions" in general and TL5 in a Banestorm campaign in particular.

To explain my problem properly, I'll have to go into more detail. I'm familiar with the rules regarding new inventions and also the rules for Tech Level Modifiers (B168). Now in a campaign with TL3, if a PC with the Smith/TL3(Iron) and Armoury/TL3 wants to make a shortsword (TL2) I would tell him to roll against the above skill with a -1 modifier for diverging TLs. Is this correct? Or would he have to make a "New Invention" an create a shortsword this way? The latter sounds very strange to me, as a smith should know how to forge a blade from a lower techlevel. Also, as a sword like this will be in general use every day, it's not a new invention, right?

So, this brings me to my second question: If you create a PC with the High TL Advantage, do you have knowledge of everything that comes with the higher Techlevel you paid for? Eg. Campaign TL is 3, PC has two levels of High TL - could the PC make a steam powered engine without going through the whole "New Invention" stuff? Would seem logical to me, as he has already paid for the higher tech level and on TL5, the engineering of a steam powered engine shoudln't pose a problem for a skilled engineer. I am aware of the difference in complexity from a short sword to a steam powered engine, but still... hasn't the PC already paid to be able to do this with his High TL advantage?

So to my final question: We play a Banestorm Campaign in which one of the PCs is an Underground Engineer with "High TL 2" (TL5). On BS30 there is a box in which TL5 on Yrth is described, they say that a small cell "may be able to create simple TL5 devices such as steam engines and electrical generators."

So, if he PC wants to create a steam engine, will he have to use the "New Inventions" rule or will he be able - having access to the necessary resources - to "just" build it?

Thanks for your help

Onkl

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by Onkl

Now in a campaign with TL3, if a PC with the Smith/TL3(Iron) and Armoury/TL3 wants to make a shortsword (TL2) I would tell him to roll against the above skill with a -1 modifier for diverging TLs. Is this correct?

If the tl2 shortsword is commonly in use at tl3, it is also a tl3 item, so, no penalty.
Only use downward TL penalty if it is a 'historical footnote' item or technique, not for making something in current use during your training.
(or if using lower TL tools.)

Or else, only master tl7 crafter could dream of making a nail or a knife ...

An engineer with adequate tl5 skills (machinist/tl5 and engineer/tl5(steam engines)) know how to make a steam engine, no invention needed, but in a tl3 world, he would get penalties for low tl tools.

High TL only give you the possibility of buying the skills, not raw knowledge.

hope this help

celjabba

[Onkl]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

An engineer with adequate tl5 skills (machinist/tl5 and engineer/tl5(steam engines)) know how to make a steam engine, no invention needed, but in a tl3 world, he would get penalties for low tl tools.

High TL only give you the possibility of buying the skills, not raw knowledge.

hope this help

celjabba

This helps a lot, thanks celjabba. The PC does have the skills you mentioned. Now, if he were to make a steam engine powered by a magic flame, I'd use the New Invention rules... as this is IMHO not covered by the normal TL5 knowledge in a banestorm world.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by Onkl

The PC does have the skills you mentioned. Now, if he were to make a steam engine powered by a magic flame, I'd use the New Invention rules... as this is IMHO not covered by the normal TL5 knowledge in a banestorm world.

I would do the same.

Remember also that the PC may have trouble getting adequate parts, both in materials (steel alloy, ...) and machining.
You may also request him to have engineer/tl5(materials) or smith/tl5(iron and steel) and metallurgy/tl5 and build a steel plant before getting to his steam engine or perhaps use invention rules or an additional penalty if he have to do with tl3 materials.

Celjabba

[Onkl]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

I would do the same.

Remember also that the PC may have trouble getting adequate parts, both in materials (steel alloy, ...) and machining.
You may also request him to have engineer/tl5(materials) and metallurgy/tl5 and build a steel plant before getting to his steam engine or perhaps use invention rules or an additional penalty if he have to do with tl3 materials.

Celjabba

He actually has all the skill you mentioned and more... He has "Obsession Long Term Goal (Industrial Revolution on Yrth)" and takes it quite seriously... I guess he will be founding Krupp soon ;(

We shall just see what the Ministry of Serendipity has to say about this..

[D10]

Well, the costs of single handedly industrializing a magic world should be high, and afaik its not like yrth is this global unified community, I can foresee the dark elves droping some nuclear bombs already

[Onkl]

Originally Posted by D10

Well, the costs of single handedly industrializing a magic world should be high, and afaik its not like yrth is this global unified community, I can foresee the dark elves droping some nuclear bombs already

He may have allies to do so... Maybe some faction in Caithness would be more than willing to develop guns to win the civil war... and once that wheel is in motion...

And who knows what the Ministry already has stockpiled...