Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

[Hide]

Some of you might be familiar with the fact certain shields and cloaks (if not all) give you +1 or more to active defenses (i.e. dodge and parry).

I know there is an “errata” which “denies” such bonuses (roughly speaking). But then I found another source that explains you have a certain bonus from passive cover. And it makes sense.

For example,

If you are going to get hit, even if you blocked an arrow before, you still have the passive defense from your shield or your cloak (regardless of using it as a swashbuckler’s cape or not) because it is between the arrow and your body (considering you are targeted by more arrow attacks).

So, how do/would you work with this, without falling in “house rules”?

Thanks for your ideas,
- Hide

[Maz]

I am not entirely sure what errata you are referring to.

But yes a DB:2 shield gives a bonus of +2 to active defenses. Against range attacks there are two ways to rule that a shield helps you.

Simple solution: You give attackers a penalty to hit equal to the DB. any miss by that number hits the shield instead of missing (and might damage the shield - or you, via overpenetration, if it's just a cloak.)

More cumbersome solution: You figure out what parts of the body the shield covers (including partially) and then roll randomly for location. If it's a location covered by the shield then it's the same as above.

[AlexanderHowl]

There is no passive defense in 4e. When you fail to defend, you fail to defend. When you succeed by the DB of the object you are defending with, it takes the hit instead of you and, if the attack is strong enough, the object only provides cover DR. This is why a shield is not 100% effective against high-powered weapons.

[Plane]

Does the bonus to active defenses still apply if you are attacked from a direction you normally could not do a block toward? For example if you are holding a shield and are dodging a shot from the rear (non-surprise, you have Danger Sense or ally shouted warning) or weapon-side?

[Anaraxes]

No; see B374. Front or shield side (same rules as for a Block).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

No; see B374. Front or shield side (same rules as for a Block).

If someone has Peripheral Vision and Double-Jointed, allowing blocking attacks from Rear, do you think they would get the DB against those attacks?

[Railstar]

Originally Posted by Maz

More cumbersome solution: You figure out what parts of the body the shield covers (including partially) and then roll randomly for location. If it's a location covered by the shield then it's the same as above.

How would you figure it out?

Off the top of my head I'm thinking...

DB 1 = shield arm (shield hand assumed to be included).
DB 2 = shield arm + torso.
DB 3 = shield arm + leg on that side.

Then combine with the Focused Defence rules to present the shield side.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Railstar

How would you figure it out?

Off the top of my head I'm thinking...

DB 1 = shield arm (shield hand assumed to be included).
DB 2 = shield arm + torso.
DB 3 = shield arm + leg on that side.

Then combine with the Focused Defence rules to present the shield side.

FWIW, in the article I reference a couple of times, I arrived at (i.e., flat-out made up) the following:

DB 1: Half cover for shield arm/hand (full cover for shield hand if buckler) and torso/vitals.
DB 2: Full cover for shield arm/hand; half cover for torso/vitals/groin.
DB 3: Full cover for shield arm/hand and torso/vitals/groin; half cover for legs (but not feet).

(Note: Where I use "half cover", I believe the appropriate BS term would be "partial cover".)

One could certainly redo (and probably improve on) my suggested combinations of location and coverage.

In any case, the effect would be (per B548 as quoted by DC) full protection for a "full cover" location, and a -2 TH (or 50/50 chance of shield strike) for a "half cover" location, versus any attack (intentional or random).

One way of going about it –

[Hide]

First of all, thanks you guys for your comments here. In a few words, everything you have commented is useful to me.

So, I just have a few doubts to clear.

1. In B390, it says shields can only block attacks from the shield's side. It does not say anything about being double jointed (as the next paragraph says for an one-handed melee weapon). So, will double jointed actually work when trying to block attacks from the non-shield side?

2. Imagine I have a cloak and I am being attacked from the non-shield side or from behind. Let's say I decided to dodge and make the cloak provide me a passive defense bonus (penalty to hit). How would you resolve it?

3. What I happens if I quick sheathe (this is from power-ups) my weapon while I am being attacked and then I grab the cloak as a matador (or batman) to make my dodge or a block? Will this effectively yield me the DB?

Originally Posted by Maz

(...) I am not entirely sure what errata you are referring to. (...)

To clarify what I actually wanted to point as "errata": I meant the DB from cloaks, which you cannot receive unless you employ them as "fencing shields". When I started playing, me and my party took the DB from the cloak even if we did not employ it as a shield; we even ended stacking the DB from the shield and the cloak! And well, maybe it is not "errata" but a fact you need to dig further than the basic books unless you really know how cloaks can work in combat (hence the quotes in "errata").

- Hide

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Hide

2. Imagine I have a cloak and I am being attacked from the non-shield side or from behind. Let's say I decided to dodge and make the cloak provide me a passive defense bonus (penalty to hit). How would you resolve it?

Do you mean "have a cloak wrapped around your arm (Ready)"? If you do, it counts as a shield, if you have it but it is not Ready it provides no protection except any inherent DR.

Originally Posted by Hide

3. What I happens if I quick sheathe (this is from power-ups) my weapon while I am being attacked and then I grab the cloak as a matador (or batman) to make my dodge or a block? Will this effectively yield me the DB?

It takes one or more Ready manoevres to wrap a cloak, poncho, denim jacket, etc. around your arm to use it as a shield, see page B383. Until it is Ready, it provides no DB and cannot Block.

Originally Posted by Hide

To clarify what I actually wanted to point as "errata": I meant the DB from cloaks, which you cannot receive unless you employ them as "fencing shields". When I started playing, me and my party took the DB from the cloak even if we did not employ it as a shield; we even ended stacking the DB from the shield and the cloak! And well, maybe it is not "errata" but a fact you need to dig further than the basic books unless you really know how cloaks can work in combat (hence the quotes in "errata").

- Hide

Page 374 "If you have a ready shield, add its Defense Bonus (DB) to any Dodge, Parry, or Block roll against an attack that came from in front of you or from your shield side. Defense Bonus is 1 for a small shield, light cloak, and most improvised shields; 2 for a medium shield or heavy cloak; and 3 for a large shield or force shield. The Shield spell (p. 252) gives a DB of 1-4." Page 383 has rules for reading a cloak to use it as a shield.

I think that all it needs is "ready shield -> ready shield or cloak."