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Old 10-01-2018, 03:31 PM   #1
TippetsTX
 
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Default Jobs and critical success/failure

I noticed in the revised ITL these rules have changed a bit. For example, it is no longer possible to boost character stats by rolling a critical success which I can understand to an extent, since it could lead to abuse (that was never my experience when playing, however).

On the the other hand, on a critical failure, the character can still die. So my question is, do the rewards (cash bonus, promotion, etc.) really balance against the risks? I don't think they do.

Also, are there any specific guidelines on what level or types of rewards are appropriate?
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

No thoughts or guidance on this?
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:09 AM   #3
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

This is an open ended issue because the answer will depend a lot on how your group uses the success outcome. It says that something good happens for you, such as a promotion. So what does a promotion mean? That's up to your group. If it means you get knighted and put in charge of a fief its a big deal and well worth the risk of the negative outcome. If it means nothing because your group doesn't really pay attention to jobs then it might not feel worth the risk and you should get a job with little or no chance of failure. Also, remember that the damage isn't automatic; it happens only if you fail a second saving throw against your best unmodified stat, which is something most people will make most of the time.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:51 AM   #4
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

It seems to me the job table serves an important purpose but that it should not be too specific in ITL because what the specific special outcomes (both rewards AND risks) should really be quite variable and depend on the situation, and especially if this is a PC we're rolling for, it's vastly more satisfying for the GM to generate on his own some specific situation to describe and play out at some level with the player, rather than saying "something happened - roll to avoid taking a generic amount of damage that may kill you" as the only possibility.

I'd say it's not that a standard reward should be specified (though rough & variable guidelines might not hurt, IF an appropriate thing to suggest can be worded such that people won't mis-apply it...), but that the risk should also be more vague.

And again, above all, both the reward and the risk should usually be turned into an interesting situation unless the players really don't care and really just want to roll through it and get the results with as little effort as possible.

---

I think the original rule ran into trouble with the way many players related to it not just because it didn't scale (i.e. it should have said you get 100 experience or 3d x 10 experience or something rather than you get enough experience to go up an attribute). It was also a problem because players tended to relate to it as:
* written-in-stone absolute truth about the rate people can improve from those jobs
* something the designer had run long-term statistics on and approved the results of
* something that made sense to think every NPC was doing, so non-violent professionals are high-level characters after 10-20 years of job rolls
* a description of the only risks working at a job presents - it's always a saving roll or X dice damage

Those are all over-applications that lead to perverse results and conclusions.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:53 PM   #5
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

Here is Steve's Official correction of ITL pg 25 :
JOBS. Clarification: Magic items (except Charms) do NOT help on the job-risk roll. Omission (may have resulted from my own error - whatever the source, it's important to play balance): " . . . give him enough experience points to raise one attribute, or 1,000 experience points, whichever is less."

This was originally printed in Space Gamer #29 July 1980. This is also available here:http://thefantasytrip.game/news/2018...rrata-for-tft/

add: In essence, there was never a give-away as a result of Jobs rolls after the first few attribute gains.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
Omission (may have resulted from my own error - whatever the source, it's important to play balance): " . . . give him enough experience points to raise one attribute, or 1,000 experience points, whichever is less."

This was originally printed in Space Gamer #29 July 1980.

add: In essence, there was never a give-away as a result of Jobs rolls after the first few attribute gains.
I like that, though the XP number would probably have to be adjusted to fit with the new rules.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:13 PM   #7
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

I think the XP award is just gone. Am I crazy or did the draft we all recently read omit that?
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:22 PM   #8
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think the XP award is just gone. Am I crazy or did the draft we all recently read omit that?
No, you're correct - that's what the OP was bringing up in the second sentence of the first post here.

The only remaining mention I remember seeing in new ITL seems to be the concluding line of the job section, which still reads "Thus, characters have lives of their own. A character can earn money, get experience, and get killed . . . all without ever going on an adventure . . . just like real life."

Again, I'd strongly recommend the success mean a situation develops where the player gets an opportunity of positive outcomes, and the risk result means a dangerous situation develops, but that it's much more interesting and satisfying to play the situations out to some degree.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

Hmm. Something like this, maybe. Roll 1d6 if you roll low or high enough on Risk.


Good Results
1. You learn something! Pick a talent that is useful in your professional path, with your GM's agreement. (Example: A translator picks a language they don't know. A shop worker picks Business Sense. A petty thief who would like to become a professional thief picks Silent Movement.) Multiply 3d6 x 10 x [the number you rolled on the Risk Dice] and gain that many XP, which can only be used towards the talent you picked above.

2. Through happenstance, you come into a treasure map. The GM can use this as the basis for an adventure, or add it into a pre-existing adventure. The treasure map can either lead to a small unguarded treasure, or help ensure that the PCs find a larger hidden treasure in a typically dangerous adventure. For example: If your next planned adventure includes a corridor with twelve stone faces carved into one wall, and the fifth in line has a removable nose with a cache of jewels behind it, this information would allow the PCs to find it without a roll.

3. Through happenstance, you come into a useful bit of information. This can be a plot hook for an adventure, or a useful clue about a pre-existing adventure the GM has planned.

4. New Friend! You make a useful ally in town. Work with the GM to pick their profession and any other information about them. Don't ask them for more favors than you do for them.

5. Loot! You gain a bonus payment of additional money, or come into possession of useful goods. The GM can roll 1d6 x your weekly pay (assume 20$ for subsistence-level jobs, if anybody has one.) Useful goods could potions or scrolls the PCs would like but would normally have trouble affording, or some other valuable item.

6. Opportunity! This is a bit of a mini-adventure; preferably something you can resolve in ten minutes or so of table-time. You can tag one other PC into it. You have a chance to really save your boss's bacon, jump into a (non-lethal) barfight and pull a drunken young prince out of harm's way, or otherwise make a good name for yourself. The downsides of screwing it up shouldn't be too bad; this is after all a GOOD result. But the GM can make it a little challenging if they want. If you succeed in turning the situation to your advantage, both PCs involved gain a reward approximately equal to one of the above results. The rewards may or may not be identical.

Bad Results
1. Screw up: You pick how, but you blow it at work and get fired. You have to look for a new job as usual.

2. Thieves: You lose 1d6x10% of your current liquid money, or perhaps an item of jewelry or the like. The GM has discretion to make this hurt. If you or your friends know their way around the thieves guild, it may be time to teach someone a lesson.

3. Embarrassing Rumor: Some people talk trash about you. Work with your GM to pick a rumor. You might get kicked out of lodgings if you don't own them, you might have trouble at work depending on your job, you might have merchants charge you more or refuse to deal with you, law enforcement might get on your case. The GM might just say you have a -1 to reaction rolls in that community from then on. The rumor might even be true! If you are a thief, having people gossip that you are a thief could be hazardous to your well-being.

4. Enemy: You gain the undying enmity of a significant person in town. They probably won't try to kill you directly, but they will devote time and energy to screwing your life up.

5. Accident: Per the book. Roll under your attribute or take damage. The GM may alternately make the situation more involved.

6. Misfortune: Much like the 6 result above, a mini-adventure, no more than ten minutes or so. You can tag in one other PC if you can justify it. Something bad or dangerous happens, but you have a chance to mitigate it. Example: Street toughs demand protection money from your shop. You can attempt a non-lethal brawl (or escalate it to lethal at your peril...), or else they take the money out of the till. That might get you fired or cut your pay. Or, your boarding house might catch fire. You can choose to try and brave the flames to retrieve your possessions, or cut your losses and watch it burn. The central idea here is that the PC can *choose* whether to take a risk that might get them hurt or killed, but the GM is entitled to make the results of doing nothing rather bad.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:38 AM   #10
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Jobs and critical success/failure

Agreed; this is an obvious place for a fun table of random results
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